Linktree and Dropmenu arrows..

Topic: Linktree and Dropmenu arrows.. (Read 18553 times) previous topic - next topic

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Re: Linktree and Dropmenu arrows..

Reply #15 – June 20, 2013, 05:20:38 pm

Oh and while I think of it, over at the left of the first category, on the edge of the wrapper, is the new go-to-top and go-to-bottom buttons. I used these elsewhere and they rock, because you can find them anywhere on any page (kinda handy in long threads, or the depths of admin).

They will stay put for height, and will always stay sitting on the edge of the wrapper regardless of width settings or screen res. Try them first before grumbling about them.

Re: Linktree and Dropmenu arrows..

Reply #16 – June 21, 2013, 04:32:23 am

Nice effect on the arrow for top/bottom page

- but IMHO they are way to prominent now. I would put them a bit more out of the way. Nice on mobile or narrow screens of course...but on normal widths it feels too much like "in your face".Like you just HAVE to press them. Truth told I am not too fond of things that follow you anyway, they detract from my focus. At the most I can tolerate a constant top/bottombar - but not those things that magically follow you around. Others may disagree of course.

About the arrows on dropmenu - I would much rather go for some kind of triangle shape, to hint theres a menu below, can't say I have seen the Wilhelm Tell arrows in use lol.But thats not to say they aren't used somewhere.

There, done grumbling for now lol.

bloc wonder how much grumbling there will be for all the changes done in his own work. Prob too much to worry about now lol.

Re: Linktree and Dropmenu arrows..

Reply #17 – June 21, 2013, 04:46:24 am

How out of the way? Thing is I think the edge of the forum wrapper is the best place for them. Edge of screen is no good, unless you're one of those nutters who runs their themes at 100% so everyone has to chase lines of text five miles long. It's been known for yonks that lines of text longer than 80 characters get to be painful to read, which means themes really should be limited to somethng under 1200px to get a reasonable width on the content sections.

That in turn means you don't (or at least I don't) want the top/bottom buttons way off yonder. That just makes them less useful. Re the "in your face", I suspect you are really noticing them because they're new to you. I've been using these for ages and they don't grab you by the throat all the time. They're just there when you want them. They should also have a decent target size IMO. 16x16 targets are for fools.

Re arrows on drop menus: I think anything you do will look a bit doofus. If you want a really clean looking menu, live without the indicators. They're not in the markup anyway as they're only pseudo elements, so it's just a matter of commenting a couple of lines of CSS if you don't want them. I just thought I should code them so people had them ready made as an option.

Re: Linktree and Dropmenu arrows..

Reply #18 – June 21, 2013, 08:22:10 am

Well, a more obvious choice would be on top/bottom, without them moving around with you. Its logical to read downwards, and when finished, go back up for whatever reason.You don't, or at least I don't, need to have them visible ALL the time, only when I reach the bottom - or being at the top and want to reach bottom.

Thats presents another question of course: why do you want to go up again for example? To get to the menu? Then maybe the menu should follow you instead. To read the top again? To get to the linktree? Thats already at the bottom(at least in topics)

One could argue that it could be in every post rather, so that it becomes part of the buttons, easily available when you need to go from the middle to top/bottom - but not want it hanging around like a irritating insect lmao.

Its unfortunelately always about "getting used to something", everything is new at one time or another..but the point is if it really is necessary or not to have it around like that. I think not..

Re: Linktree and Dropmenu arrows..

Reply #19 – June 21, 2013, 05:40:45 pm

Ok, you think not. Having it in every post would be worse. More markup, more clutter. What about admin pages? I've lost track of how many times I've been halfway down a long admin page and wanted to get to the menu. What about if someone changes their mind halfway through a page, and wants either the menu or the quick reply? I've done that too.

The thing is, you can either try to guesstimate where people might want such buttons, and then try to figure out how to add them all over the place, or you can just supply one pair of buttons that anyone can use anywhere. To me, the choice is obvious. When I introduced these buttons on the site I was running, they were an immediate hit. Nobody grumbled about them. Everyone found them useful. Quite apart from anything else, if you're idle and feeling silly, it's fun to just click them and watch the page whizz up and down with the jQuery scroll.

These aren't like those horrible floaty javascript-positioned whatnots that lag behind you and bounce up and down. These use CSS fixed positioning. They are always rock-solid stable. They just work. I suggest just using them for a week, and then deciding if you like them or not.

Re: Linktree and Dropmenu arrows..

Reply #20 – June 21, 2013, 05:54:18 pm

Quote from: Antechinus – June 21, 2013, 05:40:45 pmOk, you think not. Having it in every post would be worse. More markup, more clutter. What about admin pages? I've lost track of how many times I've been halfway down a long admin page and wanted to get to the menu. What about if someone changes their mind halfway through a page, and wants either the menu or the quick reply? I've done that too.

But you are weird...

Quote from: Antechinus – June 21, 2013, 05:40:45 pmand watch the page whizz up and down with the jQuery scroll.

I feel seasick when I click that buttons... (not joking)

Re: Linktree and Dropmenu arrows..

Reply #21 – June 21, 2013, 05:58:16 pm

I'm normal. Everyone who disagrees with me is weird.

Re: Linktree and Dropmenu arrows..

Reply #22 – June 21, 2013, 06:08:31 pm

Same here.

But yes, its a matter of trying out no doubt. Agree to disagree and all that, but in the end its forward thinking so I am not hellbent on persuading you from not adding/using them - not that i would be able I suspect lmao.

The measure is (for me) is how well they fit with the design and then user's feedback. The thing with user feedback though, is that if they got to decide everything, you'll soon loose sight of what you actually started with. So its a compromise. (more on their part

)

Re: Linktree and Dropmenu arrows..

Reply #23 – June 21, 2013, 06:28:45 pm

Ah yes. The "Let them eat brioche" theory. We all know where that got her.

I am confident that I can make these buttons look good, at least by my standards. They also have benefits for less clutter/better looks in other areas. For instance, the page links and buttonlist areas more tolerant of smaller screens and/or larger font sizes, both of which are useful for some people. It also requires less code, and cleaner code, to run it. I find that appealing too. If anyone doesn't like the positioning or styling, it's very simple to change it to suit themselves.

Re: Linktree and Dropmenu arrows..

Reply #24 – June 21, 2013, 06:40:49 pm

Here ya go, mate. This is what they look like when you're into the page content. Not so bad, IMHO.

I did tweak the CSS a bit after looking at the originals again. First go was from memory and the arrows were a bit large.

Re: Linktree and Dropmenu arrows..

Reply #25 – June 23, 2013, 08:45:31 am

I'm currently testing with these ones.
… \2026 for Level 2 subsection indicators
▼ \25BC for Level 1 subsection indicators
» \00BB for the linktree.

Re: Linktree and Dropmenu arrows..

Reply #26 – June 23, 2013, 05:15:40 pm

Yeah but ... tells me nothing. That was used in SMF 2.0.x for the subsection indicators and I, who was actually involved in the front end stuff for 2.0.x, did not realise what the silly little dots were until about a year or so after 2.0.x went gold. I think that gives a pretty good idea of how useful they really are.

Double right pointy thing has been done to death on SMF linktrees since time immemorial. I've never liked it much. I'm currently running this on local for the linktree:

Code: [Select]

/* Sized carefully for stability with non-standard font sizes. */
.linktree:after {
	content:" \21D2";
	font-size: 1.5em;
	line-height: 1.4em;
	position: absolute;
	top: 0;
	right: 0.3em;
	display: block;
	color: #888;
}
#ie .linktree:after {
	line-height: 1.6em;
}

Looks much better IMO. Could also work for level 2 subsection indicators too. Try it and see what you think.

Re: Linktree and Dropmenu arrows..

Reply #27 – June 25, 2013, 07:59:42 am

Quote from: Bloc – June 21, 2013, 04:32:23 amNice effect on the arrow for top/bottom page - but IMHO they are way to prominent now. I would put them a bit more out of the way. Nice on mobile or narrow screens of course...but on normal widths it feels too much like "in your face".Like you just HAVE to press them. Truth told I am not too fond of things that follow you anyway, they detract from my focus. At the most I can tolerate a constant top/bottombar - but not those things that magically follow you around.

Agree. It's... terrible! Some "constant" corner maybe, but these things following you around make the experience ... argh. It's not helpful IMO, it screams "I know better than you what you need, click me click me click me"

Re: Linktree and Dropmenu arrows..

Reply #28 – June 25, 2013, 09:34:58 am

Can't please all the people all of the time. Go mad trying.

I could point you at a bunch of people who think that sort of button is great, including myself of course. Corner? No good. Too far out of reach. Fitt's Law FTW.

Suggestion: use them for a week first, then see if you still hate them. My guess is you're fixating on them because they are new.

Options: make it a user setting. Fixed or old style.

Re: Linktree and Dropmenu arrows..

Reply #29 – June 25, 2013, 09:47:28 am

Quote from: Antechinus – June 25, 2013, 09:34:58 amCorner? No good. Too far out of reach. Fitt's Law FTW.

I wasn't suggesting 'corner' for the up/down buttons. I think corner is something that can stay on the page while you scroll - like a moderation bar or something. It doesn't strike as bad as 'following you on the page' up-down buttons in the middle of the page.

QuoteSuggestion: use them for a week first, then see if you still hate them. My guess is you're fixating on them because they are new.

I hate things that follow you on the page. I hate them.

TestMonkey changes timestamps to one week after 'cause it'll be the same.

PS: I'm not joking on hating them (sorry!), but I'm joking on the week, in case it ain't clear.

Experiment with whatever for a week or whatnot. Experiment FTW.