ElkArte Community

I've been posting a lot here these days and feeling well, and perhaps it's because we have a common cause in spite of using different tools (and licenses that are opposite in spirit!), I don't know, but I like you guys and if people aren't with what they see in Wedge, I'll always tell them to give ElkArte a try, because I think it caters to a different kind of forum admin (but similar user, though.)

Anyway, I figured you wouldn't mind if I opened this topic, to announce that for the first time in three years, the Wedge source code is now available to the public.
http://wedge.org/blog/
http://github.com/Wedge/ (the wedge repo has the main source code, other repos are also interesting.)

It feels good to finally be able to share this awesome codebase (not only my work, but also Pete's, whatever my differences with him.)
Also, even though Wedge's license is restrictive, I just wanted to let you know that if there's any piece of code you'd like to 'borrow', just ask me and I'll look into it!

Don't know what else to say other than Congratulations !!!!  Its an awesome software package you created, you should be very proud :D

Glad to see, congratulations.

A quick congratz!! (dealing with some tons of emails and things after a couple of days not in front of the computer for most of the time... lol)

Good for you. Hope it opens the doors to get others sticking their hands into the pot to help out.

Congrats, and well done going public... I'm confident this is a good step forwards for the project.

Thank you, guys!

Oh, it might interest you that the 'congratulations' message I got privately from the SMF team was accompanied by a cease & desist.... 8)

@IchBin, I doubt it'll bring any further contributors, perhaps in the far future, but really that's not the point. I wanted the codebase to be on github, as a central location for all things 'SMF forks', I suppose. ;)

@TE, can you look into the importer then? :P http://github.com/Wedge/importer/ is the repo for the Wedge-only importer. (It's the only one I got to work, anyway.) I also fixed the path bug I reported so long ago, as you can see in the changelog.
I just need to import avatars, attachments and media items. Think you could do that..? Is it implemented in OpenImporter, or not?

PS: mentions don't get linked when added through Quick Edit.

this one ? https://github.com/Wedge/importer/commit/44f239b6219a976b3e29683c06635673665ea97b

Avatars and Attachments Import is implemented in the Elk Version, but it's IIRC still incomplete.. As far as I remember multiple attachments directories aren't supported yet, but  I'll check that soon and also port it to the Wedge Version. I'd love to merge both Versions into just one version at some point, it's a nice little project for the futue..

Let me guess: missing (c) in the header of each file.
I just noticed while wandering around in the code and I suspect github may receive a DMCA (happened recently for the very same reason: tapatalk).

Yep, true...
I was still thinking if it was worth implementing it or not. lol
Since it "has been discovered" I suppose it's worth. :P

Just a word of caution:

You may claim your license is restrictive, but to Github the actual text of your license doesn't matter. If it's public, it's permissible; if private, it's proprietary. Just saying that, sooner or later, someone is going to take advantage of that, restrictive license or not.

@Eliana Tamerin if you think that, then you don't know much about github. In fact, that's the reason they're pushing authors to put a LICENSE file into their repos: because without a license file, the repo is considered proprietary work, and cannot be redistributed. They consider, however, that given the fact that github's fork feature is well known, putting one's repo there allows anyone to fork it, regardless of its license. But still, the forks are governed by the original license, and they can't be redistributed outside of github.

Of course I 'accepted' that Wedge would be forked on github, that's the main reason I put it there: to make it easier for people to contribute to it. Just because I happen to be re-using a modified version of the SMF 1.1 license doesn't mean I'm not open to external contributions, unlike SMF back in the day.^[1]
So, to be clear:
- Wedge being on github is something I've wanted to do since day one (well, since SMF went BSD, technically).
- Wedge being on github does allow anyone to 'fork' it in the github sense of the term, and send pull requests.
- Wedge being on github doesn't allow anyone any other distribution rights.
- And given the sentiment over at SMF, why should I even reconsider my closed license? So that they can freely rip off my code and I have to systematically check their commits to see if they credited my bits or not?
Believe me, it's hard enough as it is. I'm open to sharing with ElkArte and other third parties, but SMF..? They NEVER did me any favors.

Heck, after that e-mail, I'm willing to say f*ck it and remove Aeva Media from over there.

Of course. It had already been discussed in the past.
I wasn't too sure what to do.
But Pete was adamant that we didn't have to credit SMF everywhere; just in a single place would do. Eventually, we had their credits in contributors.txt, license_smf.txt, and the Credits page. That's more than enough, because that guaranteed SMF a 'visible' link in the software once installed somewhere, whereas the strict minimum according to them, doesn't allow them any visibility for visitors.

But the whole thing comes down to the fact that the BSD license really is unclear about one thing. It says, from memory, "provided the above copyright notice is retained". It doesn't say "provided the above copyright notice is retained IN EVERY FILE". It just says "the ABOVE" copyright notice. To me, it's always meant "See this file? Keep it. And don't change the copyright notice above this text. Now go do whatever else you wanna do, but really, don't change this file."
It's about respecting the original work. But that's what we did in Wedge, with the credit page's nod to SMF and its developers.
If we're going in that direction, then I'll send SMF a DCMA for not crediting Wedge for the code that Pete is adding into it. Sure, he owns that code, too, but he wrote it for Wedge, and it was published to our beta testers years ago. And who knows how many lines of code he's reusing from my own commits?

Really, I don't appreciate their hostility. I haven't been to sm.org for months, decided to leave them alone, especially Pete. Didn't launch any flame wars, didn't do crap in years at their place. I've been friendly to all the SMF devs I've been talking to (it's harder to be friendly with Pete after what he did, but ignoring him is the best I can do). This morning, upon reading this e-mail, I only felt one thing: disgust.

What happened to tapatalk?

Well, don't worry, Wedge quick edit also has its share of missing goodies... For instance, Ctrl+B doesn't do anything in quick edit. In Quick Reply (or at the very least Reply), it bolds your selection.

"Aww, and here I thought I was safe!" :D

Yup. Not your typos, but the .replace() part. It was all down to the fact that if I added a slash at the end of my path (which I usually do), another slash added to it by the script itself would then break the path.

Ah, yes, NOW I remember why I thought attachments weren't supported in the Wedge importer... Because you didn't support all kinds of attachments! All right then... So, yeah, the whole thing was broken in /importer, and Pandos managed to spot the reason, and fixed it. You can check out the latest commits. Feel free to move them to OpenImporter if not already fixed over there.
Oh, BTW, my importer repo is under the BSD-3 to match your own repo, but I personally prefer the MIT license (shorter, cleaner) for everything copyleft (see the /languages repo.) Any reasons why you favored BSD over MIT? SMF ecosystem, I suppose..? Or do you actually care about their extra name clause?

Isn't that already done..? I mean, I thought OpenImporter was based on the Wedge Importer codebase? Even when doing a quick diff, you can see they're both very similar... Most of the changes are added or deleted functions, and all language strings got the 'we.' header removed (I can understand that :P).

Yeah, it's not very clear.
I always considered it like: "any place I put my (c) you have to keep it".
It's probably a matter of interpretation, but I think Arantor was wrong saying that one place is enough, in particular considering that SM is known to take in huge consideration the importance of its (c) disclaimer inside the source files.

https://github.com/tapatalk/tapatalk-smf2

I told coreisp that I was fine with adding the copyright info as requested, as long as it was short enough not to be larger than the Wedge copyright info (which I wanted to be as short as possible). He said he'd come back to me soon, but I'm still waiting. I'm thinking I'll be releasing the first public alpha without the copyright adjustments, but at least I'm doing it in fair use.

Interesting that Tapatalk got into problems with SMF. One would think they NEED to be on good terms with everyone for their business to thrive... No?

Maybe they want to push their new and upcoming and fresh and all mobile interface.  ::)

grin what?

Precisely!

/me remembers having read something about it (https://github.com/SimpleMachines/SMF2.1/pull/1006#issuecomment-31075721)

It has no second meaning. Nor did it have a smiley to incur it...  ::)

"Worked for me" = "I successfully saw only that guy".  8)

So you like even more for berating you..?

Ehm. Yes. What?

'Like him'

Ah. Yes, totally. I've always been a fan of cowards.

Nao ... I like Wedge as you well know and I'm test it and allot of other things, I am a Test junky. and I just got a copy of ElKArte and will be testing out starting to morrow, there are few I don't like what what really don't like stuff you have to pay big bucks for and renew every year Like VB and I take it now gone bunker with issues stuff, I used a few year back for several years and did not really like then >> But you guys... You Guys are coming up with some fantastic stuff here and at Wedge, and I sure hope nothing gets in you way.. Keep up the great stuff, also getting us out the the SOS rut with the typical, and in to the future of Communities and they way they should work!

So congrats you you all best to you!
there I said it.

Maxx

This is great news Nao, I have been following Wedge for sometime now and having a release is awesome.

Thanks! Doing my best to get it ready for a beta release but I don't want to steal elk's momentum and it's a but unfortunate that we're both on a release path at the same time, but as I said plenty of times, I'm looking forward to be able to collaborate with elk in some fashion. (If anything, by making it easier to switch at will between the two systems, thanks to Thorsten's work on the importer.)

I think it's great that Wedge and Elkarte can be friends ( lack of better word) you don't see this very much done amongst competitors. Shows us users what type of admins we have.

The main thing is support, mods and themes. Whichever has the best of them wins.

Can't wait to try Wedge as well! :)

Well the public pre-alpha is available to anyone and has been for exactly a month now... I'm actually surprised you didn't try it out earlier ;) it's getting more stable every day.
I'm planning for a public beta by next month but real life is getting in the way sometimes. I think I'm still on track though!

I've not been as active as I'd like to be in the last month. College graduation, winter storms from hell and the works lol

Come on, just admit you haven't been following Wedge news in the last couple of months...  O:-)

You can't go wrong with ElkArte either so it doesn't matter, but just make sure to evaluate both and determine which one best suits your needs ;)

I've not been following a lot lately :p But I will say the only reason I knew about ElkArte is from a post at AAF :p get out there and market it, especially on my forums haha

Well as I said I can't post on your forum these days. That would mean changing the bulb! (For Red Dwarf fans ;))

I'll do some kind of marketing once I get a proper alpha out. Or beta, at this rate... (Wedge will go beta as soon as I introduce a self-update mechanism.)