ElkArte Community

Extending Elk => Localization => Topic started by: Ruth on March 02, 2023, 05:16:40 am

Title: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 02, 2023, 05:16:40 am
Hi!

On my Test Forum I uploaded the parcel "ElkArte Forum German translation 1.1.3" now.
All files tell on the top version 1.1 

Is this correct? This are the newest versions of language files?
I am wondering, because if I remember well, then @Jorin and me already had been working years ago on a couple of files like for example LikePosts.german.php. But this and other files and strings are still in english.

I would like to translate the new strings and the language files, which are completly new.
I started with index.german.php and translated a few new strings there.

This are old strings on line 83 and 84. But the "Home" (Portal) on line 83 does not react anymore?

English:
Code: [Select]
$txt['home'] = 'Home';
$txt['community'] = 'Community';

German:
Code: [Select]
$txt['home'] = 'Portal';
$txt['community'] = 'Forum';

I changed it this way, after installing the portal but i still have "Forum" there twice.

(Link-10269)


Do i have to create the name for this Portal-Button somewhere else?

Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Spuds on March 02, 2023, 03:09:16 pm
Those portal strings are part of SimplePortals language file ... see /languages/german/SPortal.german.php they are not part of ElkArte core.

The language files all say 1.1 and TBH I'm not sure why those are not updated, like the source files, to reflect when there were changes.   Maybe they should be?  I'm really not familiar with the translation process on Transifex so I'm really not much help in this area  :embarrassed:
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 02, 2023, 04:07:44 pm
Lol....yes, Spuds. I totally forgot about that. Those strings are in the language files of SimplePortal.

Jorin sent me today all his german language files he is using on his forum with 1.1.8. :smiley:
This will help me a lot for comparing, which files and strings are new for 1.1.9.

I will give all files a try on my testforum, after controlling and translating new parts.

Shall I upload the new german language files for 1.1.9 here in this topic then?

Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: ahrasis on March 02, 2023, 09:12:37 pm
Quote from: Ruth – Shall I upload the new german language files for 1.1.9 here in this topic then?
Yes.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 03, 2023, 05:40:35 pm
I think, this two 10 files are done now.

There had been a lot of new strings in index.german.php without translation yet.
And this like-stats had been very difficult to translate because of the english grammar.  :tongue:

There will be a lot of strings in the admin file as well. I will start this one tomorrow.



Edit: I changed LikePosts.german.php again. I think, this one is the best solution so far.
Some strings had been missing in index.german.php. I added them.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 05, 2023, 08:43:09 am
Someone downloaded this files already.

It might be, that I do some changings again, if there is a mistake or if I find a better way to translate things.
I delete and upload this file again then.

I am still not satisfied with the translation of the like-stats, for example.
LikePosts.german.php I exchanged 4 times now so far.



Edit: Here some more files:
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Steeley on March 05, 2023, 09:09:51 am
Quote from: Ruth –
And this like-stats had been very difficult to translate because of the english grammar.  :tongue:


I feel your pain, Ruth. English is very dynamic - a third of the words I learned in school and growing up are now verboten, and another third have had the meanings changed in the present day vernacular (never mind turning nouns into verbs and pronouns into fantasies, or if you put the word "social" in front of any other word it reverses the meaning of that word, etc. ), plus another bunch are brand new in the last few years - more and more I hear people write and talk in what looks and sounds like English but makes absolutely no sense to me, either.  For example I have no idea what being gaslighted or trolled even means, never mind how they would translate into German. But I applaud your effort, and think it would be interesting to see how it all translates back into "english'.. 😏

(Link-10280)
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Spuds on March 05, 2023, 05:23:19 pm
And the like stats code (and language strings) was written by someone from Turkey :flag_tr:  !!
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 06, 2023, 02:34:04 am
Well....in this case I am very happy, that I needed not to translate turkish. Lol

I had english lessions in school for 8 (!) years, but this just helped for a basic knowledge. It is sometimes very hard for me to follow an english conversation or to understand the context of meaning in an english text.

And for translations - besides the very different grammar, which is causing trouble very often, if a single string is used in another context as well:

The english language has a lot more words and expressions than the german language. Some english words dont even exist in german. As an example: There is no proper, single, nice and short word for "custom", "user" or "like" in german. To tell exactly the same in german you need to use or to create a very long and complicated word. Or you would need to use a few words or a sentence instead of a single word. Thats not good for the layout on forum.

One of the buttons in the like stats is called "most liked members". If I would translate this directly and short into german, it might lead to a misunderstandment. German people would guess, this means "favourite members" or "most beloved members". Lol. A correct german translation of this button would have caused a very wide button with a lot of long (and ugly) words on it. So I made things a bit different there and also in other german language files.




Edit:
Here some more files....
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Steeley on March 06, 2023, 06:53:29 am
"Misunderstandment"  - I love it! ( understated misunderstanding? ) I'm going to have to remember that word, it's perfect for the phenomenon.. You won't find it in any English dictionary... yet.
Congratulations Ruth..  you get a like for that..

I think the term is "Pogo-ism" (after an old comic series where various characters used made-up words exquisitely concatenated from two or three other words to produce a word sounding similar to and gathering meaning from yet another word .. one of my personal favorites is 'innermutant" (vis-a-vis 'intermittent').

Some examples of 'misunderstandments' :

I had two co-workers, one a Thai engineer, the other an Armenian technician, and listening to them try to communicate with each other in a language foreign to both of them was hilarious. For the Armenian, the word "transistor", for example, was generic, and meant any electronic component. So he would tell the engineer a problem with a "transistor" and the Thai would say "That is capacitor", the tech would reply "Yes, transistor".. No! Capacitor!" and in a few moments  one would use another "generic" English word that doesn't translate the same in both languages, invariably offensive in one, and soon they'd be screaming at each other.   :angry:  :tongue:

Another - The story goes that the Arapaho and Apache 'Indians" (Native American tribes) hated each other. Pretty much boiled down to a phrase that sounded the same in both dialects "Yea-ta-hey" - that was a greeting in Arapaho, but an insult in Apache.  Chance encounters between hunting parties turned ugly quick, each wondering why the other was so hostile.. ("I don't know what happened, I said 'Hello' and he hit me with a club! It went downhill from there...")

Last and certainly not least.. my wife and I have been together for 43 years, in spite of the fact that we both miscommunicate in the same language..
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: ahrasis on March 06, 2023, 08:51:24 am
I googled misunderstatement and found that it means the misunderstanding of a statement. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Misunderstandment
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 06, 2023, 08:56:35 am
I am good with creating new words - in each language.
I think, I meant misunderstanding.... "Missverständnis"...if you get someone wrong. :wink:
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: radu81 on March 06, 2023, 04:31:11 pm
Quote from: Ruth – I am still not satisfied with the translation of the like-stats, for example.
I  understand you very well. Translating the Likes and the Likes stats was probably the worst part to translate in Elkarte (in italian). Some phrases just doesn't sound well translated in italian, while in english they are so simple. I remember I looked at other forum software, facebook, and other social... and imho that part of the italian translation is still not perfect today.

Quote from: Spuds – And the like stats code (and language strings) was written by someone from Turkey :flag_tr:  !!
Didn't knew that, but I remember I asked for some modifications of the english files, and that part was improved, otherwise it was impossible to translate.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 07, 2023, 03:10:05 am
Yes, Radu... this like stats are not easy to translate at all.
But i think, it is a very nice feature and it works well.
Some of my members will love it - so it was worth the efford. :smiley:
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Spuds on March 07, 2023, 04:22:43 pm
Quote from: Ruth – One of the buttons in the like stats is called "most liked members".
Even in English, that can be interpreted a few ways.  The only reason it works here is that its in context with the rest of the stats buttons.

I have no qualms in changing that to something that is easier to translate (in 2.0) ... maybe drop the work member and just have it as Most Likes Received / Most Likes Given or Most Helpful and Most Thankful or ....
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 07, 2023, 06:57:41 pm
I left "most" and "members" out of there now, Spuds. In german those buttons would have been too long.
Correct translations of Most Liked Members and Most Like Giving Members would have been:
Benutzer, die die meisten "Gefällt mir" erhalten haben (or Mitglieder mit den meisten erhaltenen "Gefällt mir") and
Benutzer, die die meisten "Gefällt mir" gegeben haben (or Mitglieder mit den meisten gegebenen "Gefällt mir")
Both did not look nice to me on the buttons, so my buttons just say Likes Recieved and Likes Given now:

(Link-10292)

It would be a lot better, if this 2 strings could be 4 strings in future. 2 strings for the buttons and 2 for the description:

Code: [Select]
$txt['like_post_tab_mlmember'] = 'Erhaltene "Gefällt mir"'; (means "Likes Recieved", original in english: Most Liked Members)
$txt['like_post_tab_mlgmember'] = 'Gegebene "Gefällt mir"'; (means "Likes Given", original in english: Most Like Giving Members)

With 4 strings short buttons would be possible. After a click on the buttons, people could read then two different, proper sentences about what they will see here: The "Top 10" of members, who recieved or gave the most likes on forum - and some of the posts or topics, where this happened.

Also the other buttons there should have their own string. They should be all in plural, not a mixture of singular and plural. Looks strange to me. At the moment it has to be "Posts", "Topic" and "Board" (or "Boards") on the buttons. "Topic" is not correct there in singular, because this section tells not just about one topic. But the string "Topic" is also used in another context, where the plural "topics" would be wrong.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 13, 2023, 12:55:32 am
Translation of all files is more time consuming, than I thought.

Somehow i got a parse error in one of the files, which has about 700 lines.
Took me 3 days to work on this file.
I cannot find the mistake. I need to do this one again from the beginning.  :huh:
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: radu81 on March 13, 2023, 03:17:29 pm
If you have an error you probably have the line number, try posting those lines here.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: ahrasis on March 13, 2023, 08:40:18 pm
That is a common problem if we are translating directly to the file. I am not sure whether we still have our site for translation but we do have them before.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 13, 2023, 11:24:12 pm
I dont know the line with the mistake, Radu. Parse error does not tell me the number of the line.

It is  somewhere in Help.german.php.  I controlled this file a few times, without finding the mistake(s).
A lot of of strings had been missing there, so I think,  I made a mess with copy and paste in one or more parts. :rolleyes:

The error in ACP only occurs, if I click on the settings for attachments or on the core features,
all other sections are working well. I uploaded the file a few times for trying and testing while editing it.
But I did not check every section often enough, so I noticed the mistake too late, when file was almost done.

I will work in smaller parts now and try all parts and sections more often, this way i might find the mistake.

Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Spuds on March 14, 2023, 05:57:46 pm
Post the file with the error here, I bet I can find the issue  :smiley:
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 15, 2023, 02:00:44 am
Thank you, Spuds.  :smiley:

If I fail again now, I will show this bloody file :angry:  to you.
(Before I throw my laptop out of the window, what I almost did a few days ago) :wink:

Some of the files and specially the help files are really a pain for translating. There is still some old stuff in it (SMF), which is no more used or working different now. Also some explainations are not really helpful, they repeat only, what you see and read already, before you click on the question mark. Other help strings have too much text, things sometimes could be explained shorter.

Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 15, 2023, 08:15:59 am
A while ago, that i did such things.... :embarrassed:  of course it told me the lines. I only looked at the error message, but not in the error log, which i did right now.

I had 3 mistakes in my first file, one string was just halfway copied
and there was a missing = and this , instead of this of this one ; :rolleyes:

Together with this lines in Help.german.php there was also an error in the error log in sources/subs/TemplateLayers.class.php on line 131

This erorr was 3 days ago. It said: Warning: in_array() expects parameter 2 to be array, null given
I made a screenshot. But think, this had just to do with my mistakes? This error did not appear again now.


Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Jorin on March 15, 2023, 10:22:26 am
Thank you so much, @Ruth ! Great job! When you need some help with explanations I can give you a hand.

I think we need some kind of versioning of the language files, but at least a reliable identification of which files have changed with the last update. At some point I stopped translating because I lost the overview of which strings were new or had changed.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 17, 2023, 12:22:41 pm
Thank you, Jorin. Your files had been a great help for me. :smiley:

I cannot find this string, it is used if you insert a link.
It says "description (optional)" in english.

It is not in Editor.english.php/Editor.german.php, could also not find it in any other file yet.

Is this "description" created somewhere else?

Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Spuds on March 17, 2023, 03:09:09 pm
:shocked:  :shocked:  :shocked: Indeed its missing !

In the language file Editor.english.php there should be a line $editortxt['Description (optional):'] = 'Description (optional):'; just add that at the end of the file (just in the German language file is fine) and it will display correctly.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 18, 2023, 05:21:03 am
Thank you, Spuds. :smiley:

There is another string, I could not find yet - the "wellcome for the admin".  (I also cannot find this wellcome-string for Moderators. But for some reason there is still the german text to read in Moderator Center.)

This strings are not in ManageSettings.english.php/ManageSettings.german.php

The admin- wellcome is not displayed in german to me, if I enter ACP as an admin:
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Spuds on March 18, 2023, 09:11:10 am
The welcome string is $txt['admin_main_welcome'] and is in the Admin.english.php file.  It also uses the $txt['admin_center'] from Index.english.php (which looks like you have translated) which is why it may be hard to find.

The moderation string is $txt['mc_description'] and is in ModerationCenter.english.php, is also substitutes in your display name.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 18, 2023, 10:39:12 am
Thank you, Spuds. I found them now.

ModerationCenter.german.php will also need some work on it, which saw right now.

9 files are completly done yet, another one almost. So 6 files are left to do, if I am right.
Almost in all of them are some or a lot of strings without translation yet.

This are 39 files all together - out of them 16 needed or will need changings/new translations (I hope, it won't be more)
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 18, 2023, 03:58:30 pm
Another error...I tried both language files, german and english.

On line 154 in PersonalMessage.english.php/PersonalMessage.german.php

Code: [Select]
$txt['pm_rule_mid'] = 'Sender name';

This string leads to an error, if I try to create a new rule for PM.
Error log says:

Type of error: General
Warning: Illegal string offset 'mid'
.../index.php?action=pm;sa=manrules;add;rid=0
.../sources/controllers/PersonalMessage.controller.php
on Line: 2038

Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Spuds on March 18, 2023, 04:31:59 pm
That is a php 8  :bug:  that you found :cry:

There are two bugs
line 2035 reads $js_rules = ''; and needs to be $js_rules = [];
line 2043 reads $js_labels = ''; and needs to be $js_labels = [];
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 18, 2023, 04:35:54 pm
Don't cry, Spuds

Noone is using this for sure....at least my members don't....

There is the entire part missing for creating rules on the new server....i just compared it with my "old forum"
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 20, 2023, 01:50:06 am
@Spuds

I dared to try this changings now. This section for creating rules is there now  and it seems to work.
But I cannot complete this action with rules and labels completly.
The name of the rule has to be now in such [NAME] if i create a new one? (see screenshot)

(Link-10330)





There is another error now in the log in PersonalMessage.controller.php on line 2186
it says: Warning: A non-numeric value encountered
Code: [Select]
if ($type === 'lab' && (!isset($this->_req->post->labdef[$ind]) || !isset($context['labels'][$this->_req->post->labdef[$ind] - 1])))

Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Spuds on March 20, 2023, 09:52:42 am
[NAME] can be whatever the user chooses, perhaps Enter a name  or Enter a name for the rule would be more useful.  That default is stored in $txt['pm_rule_name_default']  in the PersonalMessage language file.

Quote from: Ruth – There is another error now in the log in PersonalMessage.controller.php on line 2186
Try the attached version and see if that fixes that error.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 20, 2023, 10:47:43 am
Thank you very much, Spuds!

There are no more errors in the log now.
I can create new rules unlimited and also without this [ ] "brackets" surrounding their names. (This i meant before)

But I can only create one Label. I can change the name of it, but there will be just one Label?
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Spuds on March 20, 2023, 11:16:12 am
You should be able to

- enter a name in the box that says label name (in the lower section)
- then click the add new label button.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 20, 2023, 11:20:31 am
I cannot type there in this lower section - no cursor, no reaction.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 20, 2023, 11:29:32 am
Oh sorry, Spuds.... :embarrassed:

I just saw it on the screenshot here, that there is a small field in the middle of this lower section.

I have very bad eyes and did not see it on forum first
I tried to type more left first. :rolleyes:

(Link-10339)

Creating of more labels is working and I can use them for the rules.
No more errors in the log. :smiley:  Thank you very much!



This field for new labels is a lot easier to see here for me.  I uploaded your file there now as well.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Spuds on March 20, 2023, 12:00:17 pm
I agree its not a great layout.

In 2.0 I'll at least move the button next to the text/label input box, that should help.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 20, 2023, 12:43:15 pm
Yes... :smiley:

I changed this string for new rules in PersonalMessage.german.php right now:

Code: [Select]
$txt['pm_rule_name_default'] = '[hier den neuen Regel-Namen eingeben]';
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 24, 2023, 10:50:57 am
I hope, that this is not another bug....

I am working on the permission file at the moment. While controlling everything on test forum I noticed,
that this button "edit all" on the top and the bottom in this list of all boards does not react anymore?
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Spuds on March 24, 2023, 03:47:04 pm
Its another bug :bug:

Introduced in 1.1 Beta 2  :huh:

Replace your admin.js (in themes/default/scripts) with the attached one
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 25, 2023, 03:09:34 am
Thank you, Spuds, it is working now on both forums.

I am a bit confused at the moment, because in the german permission file (line 64 to 70) and in the german help file there are still a couple of (old/wrong?) words and explainations about global and local permissions, also one is in the english help file. "Global" and "Local" are no more used as words in the english permission file, but in the german file they are still there:

english:
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissions_modify_group'] = 'Modify Group';
$txt['permissions_general'] = 'General Permissions';
$txt['permissions_board'] = 'Default Board Profile Permissions';
$txt['permissions_board_desc'] = '<strong>Note</strong>: changing these board permissions will affect all boards currently assigned the &quot;Default&quot; permissions profile. Boards not using the &quot;Default&quot; profile will not be affected by changes to this page.';
$txt['permissions_commit'] = 'Save changes';
$txt['permissions_on'] = 'in profile';
$txt['permissions_local_for'] = 'Permissions for group';

german:
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissions_modify_group'] = 'Gruppe ändern';
$txt['permissions_general'] = 'Generelle Berechtigungen';
$txt['permissions_board'] = 'Globale Board-Berechtigungen';
$txt['permissions_board_desc'] = 'Bitte beachte, dass Änderungen am Standard-Profil sämtliche Boards betreffen, denen dieses Profil zugeordnet ist.';
$txt['permissions_commit'] = 'Änderungen speichern';
$txt['permissions_on'] = 'im Profil';
$txt['permissions_local_for'] = 'Lokale Berechtigungen für die Gruppe';

For example this is wrong on line 292 in the german permission file, the english string tells it different and correct:
Code: [Select]
$txt['permission_by_board_desc'] = 'Hier kannst du einstellen, ob ein Board die globalen Berechtigungen benutzt oder ein anderes Berechtigungsprofil verwendet. Solltest du lokale Berechtigungen verwenden, kannst du im betreffenden Board für jede Benutzergruppe individuelle Berechtigungen angeben.';

Code: [Select]
$txt['permission_by_board_desc'] = 'Here you can set which permission profile a board uses. You can create new permission profiles from the &quot;Edit Profiles&quot; menu.';

Things are different since a long time now. "Global" is now  called "Default" and the "Standard Permission Profile" belongs to it. There is still a sort of "Local Permissions", but they are created and used different now. It is no more possible to change any permissions for a member group directly in a board, for example. This has to be done with another "permission profile" now, which is used in this board.

I am not sure, what to do now. There are some more strings with german expressions and explainations, which sound wrong to me. They might irritate or confuse people, which are looking for help about the permissions. I could explain things a bit more or just remove this old german helptexts and translate all this strings new? The same english strings are telling less and a bit different things.

But this english string in the helpfile (on line 496) is also not really "up to date"? It should tell about "default" or "standard" instead of "global"?

Code: [Select]
$helptxt['permissions_board']  = 'If a board is set to \'Global,\' it means that the board will not have any special permissions.  \'Local\' means it will have its own permissions - separate from the global ones.  This allows you to have a board that has more or less permissions than another, without requiring you to set them for each and every board.';
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 25, 2023, 06:00:59 am
Another thing:

This two strings on line 498 and 499 in the helpfile are still displayed in english on test forum.
Code: [Select]
$helptxt['permission_enable_deny'] = 'Denying permissions can be useful when you want take away permission from certain members. You can add a membergroup with a \'deny\'-permission to the members you wish to deny a permission.<br /><br />Use with care, a denied permission will stay denied no matter what other membergroups the member is in.';
$helptxt['permission_enable_postgroups'] = 'Enabling permissions for post count based groups will allow you to attribute permissions to members that have posted a certain amount of messages. The permissions of the post count based groups are <em>added</em> to the permissions of the regular membergroups.';

the german strings had been like this before:
Code: [Select]
$helptxt['permission_deny'] 
and
$helptxt['permission_postgroups']

I added this "enable" in both strings, but there is still the english text on forum?

Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Spuds on March 25, 2023, 11:08:41 am
I change my test forum to German and those help strings are in German ?  Looking in that file I find
Code: [Select]
$helptxt['permission_enable_deny'] = 'Das Verbieten von Berechtigungen erlaubt es dir, bestimmte Funktionen gewählten Benutzergruppen zu entziehen. Dazu erstellst du z.B. eine benutzergruppe und verbietest dieser eine bestimmte Berechtigung.<br /><br />Benutze diese Option mit großer Vorsicht, da verbotene Berechtigungen den Benutzern nicht mehr zur Verfügung stehen, selbst wenn die Berechtigungen in einer anderen Gruppe erlaubt sind, der dieser Benutzer angehört.';
$helptxt['permission_enable_postgroups'] = 'Das Aktivieren der Berechtigungen für beitragsbasierende Gruppen erlaubt das Zuweisen von Berechtigungen an Benutzer mit einer bestimmten Beitragszahl. Diese Berechtigungen werden zu den bereits vorhanden <em>addiert</em>.';
So I'm not sure what to say.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 25, 2023, 11:12:42 am
Yes...it should tell the same on my test forum - but it does not
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Spuds on March 25, 2023, 12:23:22 pm
Maybe a syntax error in the help.german.php file is preventing it from loading?
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 25, 2023, 12:36:59 pm
It looks all proper to me, Spuds...

Code: [Select]
$helptxt['permissions_enable_deny'] = 'Das Verbieten von Berechtigungen erlaubt es dir, bestimmte Funktionen gewählten Benutzergruppen zu entziehen. Dazu erstellst du z.B. eine Benutzergruppe und verbietest dieser eine bestimmte Berechtigung.<br /><br />Benutze diese Option mit großer Vorsicht, da verbotene Berechtigungen den Benutzern nicht mehr zur Verfügung stehen, selbst wenn die Berechtigungen in einer anderen Gruppe erlaubt sind, der dieser Benutzer angehört.';
$helptxt['permissions_enable_postgroups'] = 'Das Aktivieren der Berechtigungen für beitragsbasierende Gruppen erlaubt das Zuweisen von Berechtigungen an Benutzer mit einer bestimmten Beitragszahl. Diese Berechtigungen werden zu den bereits vorhanden <em>addiert</em>.';

I was thinking before...maybe this english strings are still twice there with and without this "enable"?

And the file of my forum, which is picking those two strings out of the help file is picking one of the two english variants?
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 25, 2023, 12:53:09 pm
lol

I just saw it

it has to be permission...not permissions

Oh my goodness.... :embarrassed:  sorry, Spuds.



Edit:

The german text is there now. 

Maybe I should do something else now for a while....I start to become crazy with all this strings....  :zany_face:
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 25, 2023, 01:46:50 pm
Quote from: Ruth –
....But this english string in the helpfile (on line 496) is also not really "up to date"? It should tell about "default" or "standard" instead of "global"?

Code: [Select]
$helptxt['permissions_board']  = 'If a board is set to \'Global,\' it means that the board will not have any special permissions.  \'Local\' means it will have its own permissions - separate from the global ones.  This allows you to have a board that has more or less permissions than another, without requiring you to set them for each and every board.';

I still don't know, how to solve this problem. In my eyes there are no "global settings" anymore.

There are only permission profiles:

The standard (which is set by default),
those 3 preformated profiles, you can select instead the standard
and those profiles you can create by yourself.

It seems wrong to me to talk about "global" and "local" here. It will confuse people. They need to select (or to create) another profile in some bords if they want other permissions than the standard.

There are a lot of other german strings, which are still using "global" or "local"....maybe the best to change all this old texts?



@Jorin

Was meinst du dazu? Ich finde diese Mixtur von alten und neuen Bezeichnungen und Erläuterungen sehr verwirrend.

Tw. sind sie auch offenkundig falsch. Es ist z.B. nicht möglich, "direkt innerhalb eines Boards mit lokalen Berechtigungen für jede Benutzergruppe individuelle Berechtigungen anzugeben". Man müsste für Änderungen der Gruppenberechtigungen zunächst mal ein weiteres Berechtigungprofil erstellen, das dann für das jeweilige Board ausgewählt wird, in dem die Berechtigungen anders sein sollen.



I tried to explain things here a bit. This is the "main" help string about permissions, displayed on the top of all sections about permissions:

english:
Code: [Select]
$helptxt['permissions'] = 'Permissions are how you either allow groups to, or deny groups from, doing specific things.<br /><br />You can modify multiple boards at once with the checkboxes, or look at the permissions for a specific group by clicking \'Modify.\'';

german(old):
Code: [Select]
$helptxt['permissions'] = 'Berechtigungen haben die Funktion, bestimmten Gruppen Aktionen zu erlauben oder zu verbieten<br /><br />Du kannst mit Hilfe der Checkboxen mehrere Boards gleichzeitig ändern oder die Berechtigungen einer bestimmten Benutzergruppe ändern, in dem du auf \'Ändern\' klickst.';

german(new):
Code: [Select]
$helptxt['permissions'] = 'Berechtigungen haben die Funktion, bestimmten Benutzergruppen Aktionen zu erlauben, sie einzuschränken oder zu verbieten. Dies geschieht durch generelle Gruppen-Berechtigungen sowie durch die vorgegebenen oder selbst erstellten Berechtigungsprofile, die in den Boards zur Anwendung kommen.<br /><br />Du kannst mit Hilfe der Checkboxen mehrere Boards gleichzeitig ändern. Im Standard-Berechtigungsprofil und in den selbst erstellten Berechtigungsprofilen kannst du die jeweils gewünschten Board-Berechtigungen von Benutzergruppen ändern und neu festlegen. Klicke dafür im betreffenden Berechtigungsprofil bei der jeweiligen Benutzergruppe auf \'Ändern\'.';

The old and the new popup of this string:
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 26, 2023, 03:23:22 am
I noticed now, that this string on line 496 in the help files is no more used at all - but it is still in the files:

Code: [Select]
$helptxt['permissions_board'] = 'If a board is set to 'Global,' it means that the board will not have any special permissions.  'Local' means it will have its own permissions - separate from the global ones.  This allows you to have a board that has more or less permissions than another, without requiring you to set them for each and every board.';

Such old strings are sometimes really confusing while translating. :rolleyes:

It seems to me, that only some of the german strings have still "global" and "local" in it.
And those strings (and some others) I would change this way now:

In the permission files on line 64 - 70:

english:
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissions_modify_group'] = 'Modify Group';
$txt['permissions_general'] = 'General Permissions';
$txt['permissions_board'] = 'Default Board Profile Permissions';
$txt['permissions_board_desc'] = '<strong>Note</strong>: changing these board permissions will affect all boards currently assigned the &quot;Default&quot; permissions profile. Boards not using the &quot;Default&quot; profile will not be affected by changes to this page.';
$txt['permissions_commit'] = 'Save changes';
$txt['permissions_on'] = 'in profile';
$txt['permissions_local_for'] = 'Permissions for group';

german (old):
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissions_modify_group'] = 'Gruppe ändern';
$txt['permissions_general'] = 'Generelle Berechtigungen';
$txt['permissions_board'] = 'Globale Board-Berechtigungen';
$txt['permissions_board_desc'] = 'Bitte beachte, dass Änderungen am Standard-Profil sämtliche Boards betreffen, denen dieses Profil zugeordnet ist.';
$txt['permissions_commit'] = 'Änderungen speichern';
$txt['permissions_on'] = 'im Profil';
$txt['permissions_local_for'] = 'Lokale Berechtigungen für die Gruppe';

german (new):
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissions_modify_group'] = 'Gruppe ändern';
$txt['permissions_general'] = 'Generelle Berechtigungen';
$txt['permissions_board'] = 'Board-Berechtigungen im Standard-Profil';
$txt['permissions_board_desc'] = 'Bitte beachte, dass Änderungen im Standard-Berechtigungsprofil sämtliche Boards betreffen, denen dieses Profil gegenwärtig zugeordnet ist. Boards mit anderen Berechtigungsprofilen werden von Änderungen auf dieser Seite nicht betroffen.';
$txt['permissions_commit'] = 'Änderungen speichern';
$txt['permissions_on'] = 'im Profil';
$txt['permissions_local_for'] = 'Berechtigungen für die Gruppe';

This way there would be no irritation anymore about "global" and "local", if you edit such profiles or the permissions.

On line 66 "Default" is not really needed, but the german string could tell additional "Default" or "Standard". It means the same in this case. I think "Board Profile Permissions"/"Board-Berechtigungen" would be enough. But I changed this now to "Board-Berechtigungen im Standard-Profil".


In the permission files on line 19:

english:
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissions_profiles_desc'] = 'Permission profiles are assigned to individual boards to allow you to easily manage your security settings. From this area you can create, edit and delete permission profiles.';

german (old):
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissions_profiles_desc'] = 'Berechtigungsprofile können den einzelnen Boards zugeordnet werden, um die Sicherheitseinstellungen mit einfachen Mitteln zu verwalten. Hier kannst du diese Profile erstellen, editieren und löschen.';

german (new):
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissions_profiles_desc'] = 'Berechtigungsprofile werden den einzelnen Boards zugeordnet. In den Profilen wird festgelegt, welche Berechtigungen für die verschiedenen Benutzergruppen gelten sollen. Dies erlaubt es dir, deine Einstellungen hinsichtlich Zugriffsmöglichkeiten und Sicherheit auf einfache Weise zu verwalten. Hier kannst du diese Profile erstellen, ändern und löschen.';



In the permission files on line 132:

english:
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissionhelp_manage_permissions'] = 'This permission allows a user to edit all permissions of a membergroup, globally or for individual boards.';

german (old):
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissionhelp_manage_permissions'] = 'Diese Berechtigung ermöglicht das Ändern aller Berechtigungen einer Benutzergruppe bzw. eines Boards (global und lokal).';

german (new):
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissionhelp_manage_permissions'] = 'Diese Berechtigung ermöglicht das Ändern aller Berechtigungen der Benutzergruppen und den Berechtigungsprofilen der Boards.';



In the permission files on line 292:

english:
Code: [Select]
$txt['permission_by_board_desc'] = 'Here you can set which permission profile a board uses. You can create new permission profiles from the &quot;Edit Profiles&quot; menu.';

german (old):
Code: [Select]
$txt['permission_by_board_desc'] = 'Hier kannst du einstellen, ob ein Board die globalen Berechtigungen benutzt oder ein anderes Berechtigungsprofil verwendet. Solltest du lokale Berechtigungen verwenden, kannst du im betreffenden Board für jede Benutzergruppe individuelle Berechtigungen angeben.';

german (new):
Code: [Select]
$txt['permission_by_board_desc'] = 'Hier kannst du einstellen, welche Berechtigungsprofile in den Boards verwendet werden sollen. Im Abschnitt unter dem Button "Profile ändern" kannst du auch selbst neue Berechtigungsprofile erstellen.';
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Spuds on March 26, 2023, 10:56:35 am
Quote from: Ruth – it has to be permission...not permissions
When I first saw that I thought it was a mistake as well :D ....
Quote from: Ruth – I noticed now, that this string on line 496 in the help files is no more used at all - but it is still in the files:
I'll mark it for removal in 2.0. 

So many of the language strings are difficult to find in the code as they are concatenated in loops, so you get ['something' + $varaiable]  This makes it very difficult to track down usage, and I've commented before that we need to stop doing that.

We also have different strings that say the same thing,  I've been told that was needed for translations in some instances possessive /plural / etc.  needs, but I still find it rather confusing.

Then there are things quad \\\\ escaping, and html entities in the strings, some of which are not needed

Anyway thank you very much for staying with this, I know its a lot of work!!
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 26, 2023, 01:53:14 pm
I want to have this proper done.  :smiley:  But when I started with this, I did not know, that it would be such a lot of work. There had been a lot of not translated strings (but we already did translate them years ago), also a lot typos, incorrect grammar or a mixture of formal and informal german, which looks terrible. The worsest for me was, that english and german strings had often not been on the same lines. This was time consuming, just to sort them for comparing.

I think, i understand you well, Spuds... I believe, that it is hard to deal in the codes with such a lot of strings.

But like you said: for proper grammar with translations sometimes more than one string is needed. At least in this parts on forum, members will see. Wrong grammar does not give a good impression of the forum. Admins and Moderators do also need proper explanations. If the grammar is wrong, it might lead to confusion or misunderstanding.

Maybe some things could be done easier and with less strings. For example: I don't understand, why words like "save" or "edit" on buttons have to be repeated this often in the language files? Could they not share the same strings?

I did about 15 files now, a few are left to do, but I hope they soon will be done now. In almost every very long file I found a lot of strings, which are no more used or are very old and just had been copied since years. The worsest one is the help file. :rolleyes: Some strings there are really pointless. They explain nothing, they just repeat the same with a bit different words, what you read already, before you click on the question mark.

Such strings could be removed in my eyes. Noone would miss them. :tongue: They just take a lot of time to controll them and take also a lot of space in the files.

Another example here in the permission file:

There are 16 strings about almost the same. I first needed to find out, which strings are used, before i could edit them. Then I sorted them in a different order:

The 8 strings on the top are in use, the 8 strings on the bottom are not used, they could be removed.

Code: [Select]
$txt['permissionname_post_draft'] = 'Kann Entwürfe von neuen Beiträgen speichern';
$txt['permissionhelp_post_draft'] = 'Dies ermöglicht den Benutzern, neue Beiträge als Entwürfe zu speichern um diese später fertig zu stellen.';
$txt['permissionname_post_autosave_draft'] = 'Automatisches Speichern von Entwürfen für neue Beiträge';
$txt['permissionhelp_post_autosave_draft'] = 'Dadurch werden während des Schreibens die Inhalte von neuen Beiträgen automatisch als Entwürfe zwischengespeichert. Das verhindert den Datenverlust bei Timeouts oder Verbindungsunterbrechungen zum Server. Die Einstellungen für das automatische Speichern werden im Admin-Center bei den Entwürfen festgelegt.';
$txt['permissionname_pm_draft'] = 'Kann Entwürfe für neue Private Mitteilungen speichern';
$txt['permissionhelp_pm_draft'] = 'Dies ermöglicht den Benutzern, neue Private Mitteilungen als Entwürfe zu speichern um diese später fertig zu stellen.';
$txt['permissionname_pm_autosave_draft'] = 'Automatisches Speichern von Entwürfen für neue PMs';
$txt['permissionhelp_pm_autosave_draft'] = 'Dadurch werden während des Schreibens die Inhalte von neuen Privaten Mitteilungen automatisch als Entwürfe zwischengespeichert. Das verhindert den Datenverlust bei Timeouts oder Verbindungsunterbrechungen zum Server. Die Einstellungen für das automatische Speichern werden im Admin-Center bei den Entwürfen festgelegt.';
// translator note: so many duplicates here? you might want to remove some...the following 8 strings are no more used:
$txt['permissionname_simple_post_draft'] = 'Kann Entwürfe von neuen Beiträgen speichern';
$txt['permissionhelp_simple_post_draft'] = 'Diese Berechtigung erlaubt dem Benutzer, Entwürfe von Beiträgen zu speichern, um diese später fertig zu stellen.';
$txt['permissionname_simple_post_autosave_draft'] = 'Automatisches Speichern von Entwürfen für neue Beiträge';
$txt['permissionhelp_simple_post_autosave_draft'] = 'Diese Berechtigung erlaubt dem Benutzer, seine Beiträge automatisch als Entwurf speichern zu lassen.';
$txt['permissionname_simple_pm_autosave_draft'] = 'Automatisches Speichern von Entwürfen für neue Mitteilungen';
$txt['permissionhelp_simple_post_autosave_draft'] = 'Diese Berechtigung erlaubt dem Benutzer, seine Beiträge automatisch als Entwurf speichern zu lassen.';
$txt['permissionname_simple_pm_draft'] = 'Kann Entwürfe für neue Mitteilungen speichern';
$txt['permissionhelp_simple_pm_draft'] = 'Diese Berechtigung erlaubt dem Benutzer, seine Beiträge automatisch als Entwurf speichern zu lassen.';

So there would be 4 permission strings and 4 help strings left. But I really think, 2 help strings would do it in this case as well? This draft-thing could be explained together for posts and PMs.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Jorin on March 27, 2023, 01:45:26 am
Quote from: Ruth – @Jorin

Was meinst du dazu? Ich finde diese Mixtur von alten und neuen Bezeichnungen und Erläuterungen sehr verwirrend.

Tw. sind sie auch offenkundig falsch. Es ist z.B. nicht möglich, "direkt innerhalb eines Boards mit lokalen Berechtigungen für jede Benutzergruppe individuelle Berechtigungen anzugeben". Man müsste für Änderungen der Gruppenberechtigungen zunächst mal ein weiteres Berechtigungprofil erstellen, das dann für das jeweilige Board ausgewählt wird, in dem die Berechtigungen anders sein sollen.

Ich habe damals bei den Sprachdateien angefangen, die Texte teilweise schon extrem umzubauen, um wirklich in allen Sprachdateien einheitlich zu bleiben, die maximalen Textlängen für Buttons zu berücksichtigen und vor allem verständlich und nachvollziehbare Texte anzubieten. In wenigen Fällen habe ich die Strings also wirklich verbogen, wo es mir sinnvoll schien. Man kann eben nicht alles rein wörtlich übersetzen, manches wirkt dann einfach unrund und nicht klar.

Also, wenn es nach mir geht, achte auf Einheitlichkeit. Wenn ein Admin eine Funktion im Adminbereich mit dem Begriff A findet, darf sie für die User im Forum nicht mit B bezeichnet werden. Das muss einfach passen.

Es wäre natürlich ideal, wenn die englischen Originaldateien schon ähnlich konsistent wären. Hier heißt ein Button z.B. "Quick Edit", das ausführliche Edit heißt aber "Modify".  :rolleyes:

Same in english:

At that time I started translating the language files, I sometimes extremely rebuild the texts in order to really remain consistent in all language files, to take into account the maximum text lengths for buttons and, above all, to offer understandable and comprehensible texts. So in a few cases I actually bent the strings where it made sense to me. You can't translate everything literally, some things just seem out of place and not clear then.

So, as far as I'm concerned, look for consistency. If an admin finds a function in the admin area with the term A, it must not be labeled B for the users in the forum. It just has to fit.

Of course, it would be ideal if the original english files were similarly consistent. For example here in the editor a button is called "Quick Edit", but the detailed edit is called "Modify". :rolleyes:
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 27, 2023, 06:25:25 am
Quote from: Jorin – Of course, it would be ideal if the original english files were similarly consistent. For example here in the editor a button is called "Quick Edit", but the detailed edit is called "Modify". :rolleyes:

I think, we found a very good solution once for the posts with "Schnellkorrektur" (quick edit) and "ändern" (modify). There should be a difference, because those two buttons do different things.

Quote from: Jorin – So, as far as I'm concerned, look for consistency. If an admin finds a function in the admin area with the term A, it must not be labeled B for the users in the forum. It just has to fit.

I did that, Jorin.... For example I tried to change any "editieren" in the admin panel and in the helpstrings into "ändern". Actions/Buttons and their explainations should allways use the same words. I also found a lot of "Mitglieder" (members) and "User" again in a lot of german files. I changed them all to "Benutzer", if it was possible. I also tried to make the permission file strings more consistent and shorter.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 27, 2023, 04:15:31 pm
@Jorin

I have not finished this files yet, but I noticed a mixture there as well.

For Addons different words are used in the german files:

"Addons", "Add-Ons", "Add-ons", "Modifikationen"... I also saw short "Mods" somewhere in the files.

How shall this be solved?

Maybe like this in texts:  Blablabla Modifkationen (Addons) bablabla.

And for Headers: Addons or Addon-Einstellungen

At the moment it looks like this:
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Jorin on March 29, 2023, 03:17:59 pm
What about plug-ins?  :tongue:  :wink:

Choose whatever you want.  :wink:  I think "Add-on" is the correct german spelling, so I would go for this.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on March 29, 2023, 04:18:51 pm
Lol....okay, Jorin.

I just found a string, I was not sure at all, how to translate it:

Code: [Select]
$txt['upgrade_warning_already_done'] = 'You are already running <em>ElkArte %1$s</em> no upgrade is available!  You must <strong>delete</strong> the install directory and then proceed to <a href="%2$s">your forum</a>';

I did it this way:
Code: [Select]
$txt['upgrade_warning_already_done'] = 'Du verwendest bereits <em>ElkArte %1$s</em>, es ist kein Upgrade verfügbar! Du musst das Installationsverzeichnis <strong>löschen</strong> und dann mit <a href="%2$s">im Forum fortfahren.</a>';
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Steeley on March 30, 2023, 08:52:07 pm
Yes, English is tough to translate, Ruth.....

For example, the term "take out" has 3 different meanings:
It's very important to know which is actually meant

1 - prepared food you buy and eat somewhere else
2 - date
3 - kill someone.

And now that I think about it, the word "date" has 4 different meanings..

1 - a palm tree fruit
2 - a small, (hopefully) enjoyable, "get together"
3 - determine the age of something
4 - a particular day on a calendar

And "calendar" has 3 different meanings..

1 - a tabular register of days  in a week, month, or year
2 - an orderly list of scheduled activities
3 - a college or university catalog.

Quote from: Ruth – The worsest one is the help file. :rolleyes: Some strings there are really pointless. They explain nothing, they just repeat the same with a bit different words, what you read already, before you click on the question mark.

Yes, sometimes it is necessary to translate English into ... other English.

[BTW, I love the word "worsest" (which is not a real English word, but should be) as it's more clear than "worst" which when I hear it spoken I often confuse with German sausage - which I also love..]

Now, here's a photo of a fuel truck taken 50 years ago in Thailand

(Link-10381)

Do you know how the Thais say "Shell Oil" in Thai?


"Shell Oil"  😖



Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on April 03, 2023, 05:20:20 am
Steeley, I bet, that there are a lot more such terms with different meanings in german than in english.
Like I said: the german language has less words, so this is just natural.
For example: heaven and sky - we have only one word for both meanings.

But I just found another english term  in the files with more than one meaning.
It had been translated funny and I was really laughing... :cheesy:

Order

1. If you want to buy something or if you go for a meal, then you sometimes order it first (in german: bestellen, Bestellung)
2. An order can also be a command, like: "Clean your room now!" (in german: befehlen, Befehl, Anordnung)
3. A certain order of sorted things, like the boards in a category (in german: Anordnung, Reihenfolge)

The last translator wrote "Bestellung" instead of "Reihenfolge",
which means, he ordered some boards, maybe he was hungry.  :tongue:

Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on April 03, 2023, 07:29:13 am
I found a lot of strings, which are no more used...

For example this one in ManageBoards.english.php on line 31 is irritating, it maybe should be removed:
Code: [Select]
$txt['mboards_permissions_confirm'] = 'Are you sure you want to switch this board to use local permissions?';


And this one on line 90 is in use, but seems wrong to me:

Code: [Select]
$txt['boardsaccess_option_desc'] = 'For each permission you can choose \'Allow\' (A), \'Ignore\' (X), or <span class="alert">\'Deny\' (D)</span>.<br /><br />If you deny access, any member - (including moderators) - in that group will be denied access.<br />For this reason, you should set deny carefully, only when <strong>necessary</strong>. Ignore, on the other hand, denies unless otherwise granted.';

Text should be "For each group", not "For each permission"
and this "ignore (X)" is not possible there. Text should be twice "not allowed" in this string.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Steeley on April 03, 2023, 09:00:36 pm
Quote from: Ruth – Steeley, I bet, that there are a lot more such terms with different meanings in german than in english.
Like I said: the german language has less words, so this is just natural.
For example: heaven and sky - we have only one word for both meanings.

But I just found another english term  in the files with more than one meaning.
It had been translated funny and I was really laughing... :cheesy:

Order

1. If you want to buy something or if you go for a meal, then you sometimes order it first (in german: bestellen, Bestellung)
2. An order can also be a command, like: "Clean your room now!" (in german: befehlen, Befehl, Anordnung)
3. A certain order of sorted things, like the boards in a category (in german: Anordnung, Reihenfolge)

The last translator wrote "Bestellung" instead of "Reihenfolge",
which means, he ordered some boards, maybe he was hungry.  :tongue:



Makes sense.... "Ordered some 'boards' (slang for Pop Tarts! (https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/6245590b-8ed1-401f-b32d-549f1d48c9d5_1.6fdbb9f3f7d4bbf3b9899c6677857e76.jpeg) )"  😋

Actually, there's even more meanings as well...a group of people organized formally  (e.g. fraternal Order of Masons, )  and "normalize/regulate ("the police maintain order") and "begin formally" (e.g, "call a meeting to order", or a bailiff ("The court shall come to order"), or a military drill position, from "Present Arms" , give the order to the position "Order (Arms)" (while at attention a salute returns the hand and arm to the side along the pant seam,  or rifle placed vertically butt down  and adjacent to the right shoe or boot, or a sword or saber placed tip down in front of the right shoe or boot  i.e "the Order Arms position").

(Link-10412)
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Steeley on April 04, 2023, 12:05:05 pm
Quote from: Ruth –
And this one on line 90 is in use, but seems wrong to me:

Text should be "For each group", not "For each permission"
and this "ignore (X)" is not possible there. Text should be twice "not allowed" in this string.

I believe you are correct that it should read "for each group..", but I think ("ignore (X)") indeed has a role to play (basically it means "look elsewhere for controlling authority"). Perhaps "elsewhere" could be activity permissions (post, edit, etc.) based on either groups or levels - I'm not sure of the logical flow chart of permissions for any particular use case (is anybody? 🤪 ]

BTW, is "Globaler Moderator" a level above the basic run-of-the-mill "Global Moderator"?  😉

[And if we're going to have a Globaler Moderator, how about a "Globalest Moderator" - wears the one ring that rules them all -  (as opposed to a "Globalist Moderator", which sounds like either an advocacy role or a philosophical characteristic role - I have no idea how I'd set permissions for that.. 🤩 ).


Edit: Oh, and regarding "one word for both sky and heaven" in the post I previously quoted, we too have that..."UP" ☝  (and yes, "up" has other meanings too, of course.. I'll let you 'look "up" up' - or it that 'look up' "up"?).
I give up...
Good luck to you, it's a thankless endeavor..
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on April 04, 2023, 12:20:31 pm
If a member wants to ignore certain boards, he can do this in his profile settings.

Ignoring has nothing to do with the allowed access of boards by member groups, so this english string is using wrong words, but the german translation was already correct. This part of the settings for the boards is only displayed, if an admin has enabled "deny" for access and permissions.

QuoteBTW, is "Globaler Moderator" a level above the basic run-of-the-mill "Global Moderator"?

lol...no, it is the only group name I translated yet into german on test forum.



Your "up" reminds me to this:

@Jorin and me did translate the strings "sort up" and "sort down" different. This was leading to "wrong icons" (two different arrows) I created for this actions once. :wink:  Jorin thought, that those two strings are orders, like "sort them up!" and "sort them down!".  And I thought, this strings mean "this is sort up" and "this is sort down". 

But now it seems to me, that this two strings are used different. My icons are fine for the admin area and for the member list. But they are wrong for sorting topics and for the order of PMs . Well...noone will care about this - except me. :wink:
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Steeley on April 04, 2023, 01:22:13 pm
Quote from: Ruth – If a member wants to ignore certain boards, he can do this in his profile settings.

Ignoring has nothing to do with the allowed access of boards by member groups, so this english string is using wrong words, but the german translation was already correct. This part of the settings for the boards is only displayed, if an admin has enabled "deny" for access and permissions.


I'm not sure I agree with what I think you're saying Ruth. 

With Admin setting permissions for groups, I believe "ignore" means "not set here", permission is conditional and controlled elsewhere (as opposed to the other possible setting for this group (allow or deny) - "I'm not controlling it here, I'm controlling access in another group, board, or member permission setting".

That's different than a member deciding what to access or not in his own profile in the "Ignore Boards Options".
Admin can give access to the member's group by either Allow, or ("Ignore", meaning I allow it elsewhere in some conditions and deny it elsewhere in other conditions), and an individual member can then choose to ignore any particular board Admin allows, regardless of the Admin's group or board settings. (Of course, if the member is denied access by virtue of the Admin settings for the members group, message count, # of likes, whatever pertains, the member shouldn't even see the board at all, including listed in the member's profile settings)

If I'm wrong on that, it may explain some of my difficulty figuring out the permission logic flow chart 🙃. 
  
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Steeley on April 04, 2023, 01:50:18 pm
Quote from: Ruth –
Your "up" reminds me to this:

@Jorin and me did translate the strings "sort up" and "sort down" different. This was leading to "wrong icons" (two different arrows) I created for this actions once. :wink:  Jorin thought, that those two strings are orders, like "sort them up!" and "sort them down!".  And I thought, this strings mean "this is sort up" and "this is sort down". 

But now it seems to me, that this two strings are used different. My icons are fine for the admin area and for the member list. But they are wrong for sorting topics and for the order of PMs . Well...noone will care about this - except me. :wink:

For what it's worth, I interpret that as a command "sort the display based on this option the other way" (alphabetically, date, # of likes, whatever the options are. Perhaps because the debate as you described is universal and implemented both ways everywhere it seems (this is the sort order vs. change the sort order), if I don't like the existing sort order, I change it based on the sort criteria offered - the arrows could be stacked (up/down) and mean the same thing to me.  

In high school I took a speed-reading course, which completely disrespects an author who spends considerable time deciding, for example, whether to use an "and" or an "or" to conjoin two sentences and thus concepts in his literary masterpiece.  Thanks to Evelyn Wood, I blow right by it and don't even see what the author decided on.. Similarly, I don't get stuck pondering the arrow direction, I just know if I select it it will change from whatever it is currently..
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on April 04, 2023, 01:50:33 pm
I think, you are wrong, Steeley....but it is very hard to explain it for me....I will try:

In the generell settings of all boards on forum an admin decides, if he will allow members to ignore boards.

This is done here:

(Link-10417)


If it is allwowed, then any member with full access to the own profile settings can select the boards, he/she wants to ignore.
It is allowed on elkarte.net. This is a screenshot of my profile settings here. I could select any board here, I want:

(Link-10419)
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Steeley on April 04, 2023, 02:47:10 pm
Quote from: Ruth – I think, you are wrong, Steeley....but it is very hard to explain it for me....I will try:

In the generell settings of all boards on forum an admin decides, if he will allow members to ignore boards.

This is done here:

[attach type=thumb align=center]10417[/attach]


If it is allwowed, then any member with full access to the own profile settings can select the boards, he/she wants to ignore.
It is allowed on elkarte.net. This is a screenshot of my profile settings here. I could select any board here, I want:

[attach type=thumb align=center]10419[/attach]

OK, so what does "Enable the Option to Deny Board Access" accomplish depending on the group "Allow / Ignore / Deny" setting (which I also have selected..)?  [I'm not saying I have anything "right" here, I'm relating what I think is right, with a big caveat..]

And I got it wrong wrt ".. a member deciding what to access or not in his own profile in the "Ignore Boards Options".", as it pertains not to "access" but to new post alerts).

(This is probably a discussion that should take place in a different board as it isn't related specifically to German translation, plus, I'm not sure what, if anything, has changed in permission logic from v.1.1.6 (mine)  to v.1.1.9)
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on April 04, 2023, 03:00:06 pm
QuoteOK, so what does "Enable the Option to Deny Board Access" accomplish depending on the group "Allow / Ignore / Deny" setting (which I also have selected..)?

It has nothing to do with "ignore"...wrong english text there. The text should be "not allowed" there.

This "deny-option" can be used, if you have created a "very difficult system" about member groups, with very different permissions and more than one group a member belongs to. If one of this groups is allowed to see the board and the other one is not, things wont work. This member could still use the board, because he is in both groups. So sometimes you might need then to deny the access to a certain board, if you want to exclude a certain member group from using it.

Normally "deny" it is not needed, "not allow" is enough mostly.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Steeley on April 04, 2023, 03:47:00 pm
Quote from: Ruth –
QuoteOK, so what does "Enable the Option to Deny Board Access" accomplish depending on the group "Allow / Ignore / Deny" setting (which I also have selected..)?

It has nothing to do with "ignore"...wrong english text there. The text should be "not allowed" there.

This "deny-option" can be used, if you have created a "very difficult system" about member groups, with very different permissions and more than one group a member belongs to. If one of this groups is allowed to see the board and the other one is not, things wont work. This member could still use the board, because he is in both groups. So sometimes you might need then to deny the access to a certain board, if you want to exclude a certain member group from using it.

Normally "deny" it is not needed, "not allow" is enough mostly.

I suspect conceptually we're in contentious agreement, but not regarding "not allowed". Access may indeed be allowed, but this board permission setting is not making that determination, "Selecting "ignore" (or "X") allows it to be determined in some other permission setting somewhere else.

(And sometimes the obvious escapes my attention - I just deleted a whole bunch of text I posted trying to illustrate and elaborate on what the last sentence of explanation in your permissions screenshot says succinctly..)

"For this reason, you should set deny carefully, only when necessary. Ignore, on the other hand, denies unless otherwise granted

I noted earlier.. "..I believe "ignore" means "not set here", permission is conditional and controlled elsewhere.." (yes, system default is deny if permission is not allowed in some other setting somewhere else. )

What did I say earlier about "sometimes English needs to be translated into....other English"?
 And sometimes that just makes it worse.. 😣

However, regarding a user's profile settings to ignore boards, that's completely unrelated to board access permission settings.. So, yes, the word "ignore" means different things; in board settings it pertains to board access control, in user profile board settings it pertains to new post indications - neither of which actually means "don't pay attention to", which is what in the literary sense, "ignore" actually means. 
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on April 04, 2023, 08:45:04 pm
Steeley, i will need google translator for trying to understand your post proper, will do this now... (darn...why did you remove a part of your text?)

But first:

Please change this string on line 90 in your ManageBoards.english.php:
Code: [Select]
$txt['boardsaccess_option_desc'] = 'For each permission you can choose \'Allow\' (A), \'Ignore\' (X), or <span class="alert">\'Deny\' (D)</span>.<br /><br />If you deny access, any member - (including moderators) - in that group will be denied access.<br />For this reason, you should set deny carefully, only when <strong>necessary</strong>. Ignore, on the other hand, denies unless otherwise granted.';

Believe me, it is wrong. Thats a pretty old mistake in the english language files. I remember, that I corrected this a long time ago in the german files. I know, how this feature works and another proof, that this english text is wrong is, that the text is only displayed, if the admin enables "deny board access based on members group".

The english text of the string on line 90 should be something like this:
Code: [Select]
$txt['boardsaccess_option_desc'] = 'For each group you can choose \'Allow\' (A), \'Not allowed\' (X), or <span class="alert">\'Deny\' (D)</span>.<br /><br />If you deny access, any member - (including moderators) - in that group will be denied access.<br />For this reason, you should set deny carefully, only when <strong>necessary</strong>. Not allowed, on the other hand, denies unless otherwise granted.';

The settings of your board are (almost) fine, you dont need to deny here any group the access. The X is enough for not allowing to see and use this board.

Set all groups to X . Except "Global Moderator" and "Free Spirits", they should both have an A for "allowed", because they should see this board.



None of your groups is based on the number posts? So none of them is like "Regular Members"? This is something, you need to watch, if you want to deny access once for a board: Every group/member belongs to "Regular Members" as well, so "Regular Members" or any other of the "based on post groups" should never been set on "D".

You also need to look, if a member belongs for example to "Free Spirits" and to "Air crew", if you might use "deny" for one of this two groups in a board one day. But only with A and X all will be fine:

"Free Spirits" have an A, so it matters not, that some of them belong also to the group "Air crew", which is set on X in this board.  Every member, who belongs to the group "Free Spirits" has access to this board. And members, who belong only to the group "Air crew" wont see this board, because the X is working for them.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Mrs. Chaos on April 04, 2023, 11:40:56 pm
.
Hi Ruth,
take DeepL (https://www.deepl.com/translator) for translations. The results are much better than those of Google Translator! :smiley:
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Steeley on April 05, 2023, 03:08:11 am
Quote from: Ruth – Steeley, i will need google translator for trying to understand your post proper, will do this now... (darn...why did you remove a part of your text?)

Because it was lots and lots of text as example of my point, which I decided was not just confusing but redundant to the succinct description text in the permissions screen.

Quote from: Ruth –
But first:

Please change this string on line 90 in your ManageBoards.english.php:
Code: [Select]
$txt['boardsaccess_option_desc'] = 'For each permission you can choose \'Allow\' (A), \'Ignore\' (X), or <span class="alert">\'Deny\' (D)</span>.<br /><br />If you deny access, any member - (including moderators) - in that group will be denied access.<br />For this reason, you should set deny carefully, only when <strong>necessary</strong>. Ignore, on the other hand, denies unless otherwise granted.';

Believe me, it is wrong. Thats a pretty old mistake in the english language files. I remember, that I corrected this a long time ago in the german files. I know, how this feature works and another proof, that this english text is wrong is, that the text is only displayed, if the admin enables "deny board access based on members group".

The english text of the string on line 90 should be something like this:
Code: [Select]
$txt['boardsaccess_option_desc'] = 'For each group you can choose \'Allow\' (A), \'Not allowed\' (X), or <span class="alert">\'Deny\' (D)</span>.<br /><br />
If you deny access, any member - (including moderators) - in that group will be denied access.<br />For this reason, you should set deny carefully, only when <strong>necessary</strong>. Not allowed, on the other hand, denies unless otherwise granted.';

This is where I must disagree.  "X" is NOT "not allowed", "X" is "denied or allowed by virtue of other permission settings". Saying "X" is "not allowed" (in english, "not permitted") tells a 'novice' admin access is "not allowed" when in fact, access might indeed be allowed by other permissions (member group permissions I'm thinking specifically).  Really confusing when the admin thinks a user is "not allowed" access per the board permissions,  yet discovers they DO have access anyway. 

I don't know who wins the collision if member group permissions set up a board access and board permissions set that member group to deny  that access. I suspect the board settings take precedence, which is why "X" exists.

"X" tell the Admin the access permissions for that member group aren't set in the board permissions, but elsewhere.

(Perhaps a better word than "ignore" is "deferred").

Quote from: Ruth –
The settings of your board are (almost) fine, you dont need to deny here any group the access. The X is enough for not allowing to see and use this board.

Set all groups to X . Except "Global Moderator" and "Free Spirits", they should both have an A for "allowed", because they should see this board.

Actually, it's better than "almost fine".. it IS fine.  It does exactly what I want. And what you suggest is what I did (except for guests set to Allowed because,  even though I have no guests,  RBE email runs at the guest level and I specifically want email support in this board.. if I set it to "X" RBE doesn't work in that board, because there are no guest permissions set elsewhere to override the default deny.

Quote from: Ruth –
None of your groups is based on the number posts? So none of them is like "Regular Members"? This is something, you need to watch, if you want to deny access once for a board: Every group/member belongs to "Regular Members" as well, so "Regular Members" or any other of the "based on post groups" should never been set on "D".

All of my members are "regular members", there are no special permissions or privileges based on post count, so those distinctions are irrelevant .  At present, I have no "moderator" accounts, only one Global Moderator account, and one admin account (and both of those accounts are mine).

Quote from: Ruth – You also need to look, if a member belongs for example to "Free Spirits" and to "Air crew", if you might use "deny" for one of this two groups in a board one day. But only with A and X all will be fine:

"Free Spirits" have an A, so it matters not, that some of them belong also to the group "Air crew", which is set on X in this board.  Every member, who belongs to the group "Free Spirits" has access to this board. And members, who belong only to the group "Air crew" wont see this board, because the X is working for them.


When I set up permissions, I wasn't sure whether "deny" for a group would be over-ridden by "allow" for another group that a user might be also be a member of.  And I can't be sure that at some point in the future the permission logic tree isn't changed so that deny would apply to all members of that group, regardless of also being in another group with access allowed. 
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on April 05, 2023, 05:37:44 am
Hi, Mrs. Chaos!  :smiley:  Nice to see you again.... and "thank you". I hope, you are well?

It is getting complicated here, Steeley... :wink:  Maybe better to start another topic for permissions and member groups.

I dont reply to everything now, because I think, we have language barriers here: I don't understand you exactly and I might just confuse you more, when I try to explain things to you.

So just this for now:

X means "disallow". ( I said "not allowed" before, but "disallow" would be correct.) This english word is everywhere else used in the settings, like for example here:
(Link-10425)

The english text on line 90 in ManageBoards.english.php is wrong, it has to be this way:
Code: [Select]
$txt['boardsaccess_option_desc'] = 'For each group you can choose \'Allow\' (A), \'Disallow\' (X), or <span class="alert">\'Deny\' (D)</span>.<br /><br />If you deny access, any member - (including moderators) - in that group will be denied access.<br />For this reason, you should set deny carefully, only when <strong>necessary</strong>. Disallow, on the other hand, denies unless otherwise granted.';

"Regular Members" and "Regular Groups" means something different, when we are in the boards.

"Regular Members" is a summary of all "post based member groups" which exist on forum. So you could just select them all together, if you want to make it easy for board access. "Regular Members" is underlined as well, like the other "post count based groups" . (Link-10427) (Link-10443)

Your groups  "Free Spirits" ,"Air crew" and "remtest" are "Regular Groups", but they  don't belong to "Regular members", because they are not post based and not underlined on your screenshot.

(Well, in some way they belong to "Regular Members" too, because each person will be at least a "Newbie" too. Thats why I said "never use "Deny" for any regular members/post based groups.)

When you create new member groups or when you set the permissions for groups, you will see the difference between "Regular Groups" and "Regular members".

Regular groups are on the top here, post count based groups on the bottom:
(Link-10429)

But if you manage permissions you have all members of post based groups on the top as well, because they all belong to "Regular Members" and you could set the same basic permissions to all of them:
(Link-10431)


QuoteWhen I set up permissions, I wasn't sure whether "deny" for a group would be over-ridden by "allow" for another group that a user might be also be a member of.  And I can't be sure that at some point in the future the permission logic tree isn't changed so that deny would apply to all members of that group, regardless of also being in another group with access allowed. 

"Deny" is very powerful. It will overwrite any "allow" for people in their other groups, they belong to. You won't need "deny" ever, me thinks. It can be used in very seldom and extraordinary cases and circumstances (if you want to be mean and sneaky). But normally you won't need it. "Allow" and "disallow" will do it mostly for any permissions and accesses, you want to have for your groups on forum.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Steeley on April 06, 2023, 01:47:37 pm
Quote from: Ruth –
It is getting complicated here, Steeley... :wink:  Maybe better to start another topic for permissions and member groups.


Yea, I suggested that earlier

QuoteSo just this for now:

X means "disallow". ( I said "not allowed" before, but "disallow" would be correct.)


Referring to Merriam-Webster dictionary:

"Disallow":   ((synonym: "not allowed" - same meaning)
transitive verb

1 : to deny the force, truth, or validity of
2: to refuse to allow  <----  

"Defer":
transitive verb
: to delegate to another

intransitive verb
: to submit to another's wishes, opinion, or governance, usually through deference or respect



Because "X" will allow a permission set elsewhere to determine the board permission for the "X'd" member group in the board, "disallow" would be incorrect. 

"Defer" is more appropriate than "ignore", and definitely more accurate/less confusing than "disallow" or "not allowed" (because it will indeed "allow"..)

(If I were to change anything in English, I'd change "ignore" to "defer", but I can live with "ignore".. in spite of any potential confusion I may have suffered as a "novice" EA admin,  never-the-less I was able, with the aid of some sages here - although not having anything to do with "ignore" - to configure my forum to work as I desired, and that's the ultimate objective, eh?)

However, you are doing the German translations, so I'll respectfully "defer" to your judgement on what German words and phrases are appropriate, and leave those debates to you and @Jorin  😜

[But, that said, if you will permit me a suggestion, may I offer "verschieben" or "woandershin" for consideration? 🤔  (Hat tip to @Mrs. Chaos 😉) ]
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on April 06, 2023, 02:53:23 pm
QuoteBecause "X" will allow a permission set elsewhere to determine the board permission for the "X'd" member group in the board, "disallow" is incorrect.

No, it is not incorrect, Steeley. Because in a board A, X and D are only for the possible (or not possible) access to this certain board for the member groups. This settings are not done somewhere else, you need to do them in each board on your forum.

It has nothing to do with the other permissions a member group will have in this board. This permission settings for member groups (like "allowed to start new topics") are done in the various profiles, you can create and select for your boards. But in the boards permission profiles you can also decide about A, X and D, if you have enabled "deny".

If you don't enable "deny", not in the boards and not for permissions, the settings are a lot easier to do. And like I said: "deny" will hardly ever really be needed.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on April 06, 2023, 03:11:31 pm
@Spuds

If you don't mind: Can you please split this topic? :smiley:

Maybe at "Reply #58"?

There we started to discuss about permissions and other stuff, which has not really to do with translations.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Steeley on April 06, 2023, 06:07:07 pm
My last post in this thread will be a question:

Given "Allow,  "ignore", and "deny" as choices, what does "unless otherwise granted" mean in  " Ignore, on the other hand, denies unless otherwise granted"?
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on April 06, 2023, 06:27:54 pm
You ask me, Steeley?

It means nothing. It is simply nonsense.

The words "permission" and "ignore" in this language string on line 90 for manage boards are mistakes.
Someone  did not pay attention there....maybe 15 years ago....or longer.
And maybe noone realized it, because this feature was hardly ever used.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Steeley on April 06, 2023, 09:02:34 pm
I haven't explored the nuances of allowing member groups (or certain members of a group) the option of setting their own permissions for board access (this is a member group permission option), but if it means what I think it does, then the forum admin selecting X in a board access permission for that group would allow that member group to allow (or deny) access to a particular board themselves (their own separate way??), and the Admin selecting "X" defers the decision to access that board  (or not.) to such a group that is allowed to make it's own decisions.

I believe this could be used to literally set up a "forum structure" within a forum (call it a sub forum), allowing the moderator(?) (subforum "admin") of that "subforum" to decide whether to allow or deny access to certain boards (the forum admin creates) for the member group. I can think of a couple of other possibilities as well (especially if you are adept at php, which I am not).  But, unless that code (or hooks) have been removed, then no, it is not "nonsense" - It means exactly what the description says, and the best "English" word for that  I can think of for that description of [X] is "defer".

But, let's climb out of this rabbit hole and get back to original intent..  I'm not really trying to argue what the permissions do (I'm probably the last person to ask if you want to know the exact permission flow chart as it exists in the code), I'm only addressing your issue with the word "ignore" as it pertains to how "X" is defined , and I agree  with you that "ignore" is not the best choice, as the description fits the English word "defer" much better.
If that permission option is not functional or meaningful as it is described (legacy SMS??), then it seems to me that X and Deny are exactly the same, the description text describing the meaning of "Ignore" should be deleted and X as an option can probably just be removed, not just "ignore" one or the other (Oh my!!)  That's a whole different kettle of fish...and yes, it should really not be explored in a language translation topic, but a different board.
 I was just trying to help with definition and translation of the existing English words themselves.

Now I'm done...    carry on!
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on April 17, 2023, 07:33:59 am
I have still not finished this :angry: help file. 700 lines of pain....this is, what this file is.

There are some strings twice in one file, which means, editing the second one won't work. Only the text of the first string is displayed. Other strings in the files might have a duplicat in other files now and/or I cannot find them. :rolleyes: This is very time consuming.

One example:

The max. height and max. width of images can be set on two different sections in the admin center, in the settings for the posts and in the settings for attachments. So this 2 help strings on line 318 and 319 appear twice on forum as well:
Code: [Select]
$helptxt['max_image_height'] = 'The maximum displayed height of an attached image.';
$helptxt['max_image_width'] = 'The maximum displayed width of an attached image.';

The string for the max. width has a duplicat on line 294 in the english help file. I removed this one in the german help file.




I will need to stop soon with this translations. I am doing this since 2 months now, almost all day and night.  This week I will try to complete at least the help file and the admin file and then check the 3 portal files.
After this I really should start with working on my themes - I did nothing yet on them. :rolleyes:

In this topic here (on page 1) I uploaded 27 german language files so far, which needed editing and/or new translations. Almost all of them I deleted and uploaded again a lot of times during the last weeks... some of them yesterday and before again.

Always I find some more mistakes again, some texts are completly wrong (enable and disable was mixed up during translation once), some parts are just halfway translated, different german terms are used for the same thing, bad grammar, sometimes a terrible mixture of formal and informal german, and missing or not completly displayed strings. Some of them had been once translated with a machine for sure. This means, there is not just the "formating" missing, they also won't work at all or will cause errors. It seems to me, that a lot of this help strings have never been really controlled by the translators, some of this strings are pretty old - and only new and actuell strings had been translated, the older german ones had been just copied for years. No matter, if the english strings tell something different now, because things work different....

I had the feeling that this translation now is getting more and more .....not less.  :huh:  Right now I noticed, that there are two more files, which will need work on them.

One of them I will do now, the other one I will leave to someone else  :tongue:  or maybe do it later one day, but not now: It is Reports.german.php. The english and the german file contain the same amount of strings on 136 lines, but they seem not to be complete. I think, that there are a lot of strings missing in the english file as well. But I did not really controll it before. Maybe it is not this much missing and not this much of work and just a few strings there, which are not translated yet.
 



I have some questions:

1.
I noticed a lot of "tooltips" before, when hovering the permissions of a member in the members profile. Each permission has one. They are all in english. Where are they and is it necessary/possible to translate them? (I don't think so)
(Link-10498)

2.
This tooltip should be translated, it tells "Close" and is used for example in the like stats and for help popups. But I cannot find it. There is a "close" in the german editor file, but this does not work here. Should there be a second one with "Close"?
(Link-10496)

3.
This string in the profile file on line 62 seems "cut off" to me. Should it not tell something about the correct size of an avatar? I tried it with uploading a very big image as an avatar. I got a proper displayed error message, but without anything about the correct/allowed size or KB.
Code: [Select]
$txt['avatar_too_big'] = 'Avatar image is too big, please resize it and try again (max';

4.
There is a tiny mistake in the german profiles, in the account settings there....where you need to repeat the password, I mean this "Verify Password". This is spelled wrong in german. This little mistake annoys me since 17 years, but I could never find the string. Every german string I found in the files about "Verify Password" is spelled correct.  Maybe this mistake is deep somewhere in the h.e.l.l. of SMF? Where does this string comes from?
(Link-10502)

5.
Not really important, but i would like to change this, if possible: We don't are "Germans" in our language and we don't talk "German", we talk "Deutsch" (or Bavarian....lol) and also our members which are from Austria or Swizzerland talk "Deutsch". Is it possible to display the word for the selected language in the profiles in its own language? I think, it would be nicer....  :smiley:  Same for french, italian or any other language of course.


6.
Who thought once, :evil:  that it would be a great idea to write this help string on line 400 with such a code in it? This alternating DOES : DOES NOT in the middle of a sentence - in combination with a function - is almost impossible to translate into another language which has a complete different grammar and sentence construction.
Code: [Select]
Your server ' . (function_exists('pspell_new') ? 'DOES' : 'DOES NOT') . ' appear to have this set up.';
I finally found a solution, how to translate this little sentence with correct german grammar and complete without syntax error....but it took me hours.  :zany_face: Honestly, this was really annoying. Such a difficult code, only for telling me again in my case: Your server DOES NOT appear to have this set up. I already saw this before here in red: This does not work on your server. No need at all to tell it again with such a sentence in the help popup.
(Link-10500)

If one knows this guy, who did this once....please tell me his name and give me his phone number. :evil: I would like to talk to him. Lol.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Spuds on May 13, 2023, 06:11:33 pm
I'll try to answer a couple of these ....

1/ tooltips ... very often hardcoded in the templates.  Needs to be fixed, maybe 2.0, but its an inherited mess.
2/ hardcoded JavaScript.  Maybe fix in 2.0.  Basically we need to create a js var that gets set with the value and then use the value in the script.  The tooltip for most is not seen, its really there for screen readers.
3/ no idea really, not sure that is even used anywhere.  Looks ancient, like before sprintf calls were being used.
4/ that should be $txt['verify_pass'] = 'Verify password'; in index.German.php.  I changed that in my English file and it seemed to work.
5/ probably not :P sorry!
6/ Spuds is innocent (maybe, not sure LOL) ... but to further annoy you, that spell function was removed in 2.0  :zipper_mouth:  due to browser spell checking being better and pspell support for other than English was a bit spotty.
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on May 13, 2023, 10:59:42 pm
Thank you very much, Spuds.

to 6:
Good, that this string for the spell stuff will be removed in future...lol...just a pain to translate.


to 4:
This string in index.German.php on line 166 is spelled correct:

Code: [Select]
$txt['verify_pass'] = 'Passwort wiederholen';

Also all other files I checked are spelling "Verfiy password" correct in german.
But it is displayed incorrect in the profiles
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Spuds on May 14, 2023, 09:44:31 am
Quote from: Ruth – Also all other files I checked are spelling "Verfiy password" correct in german.
But it is displayed incorrect in the profiles
That is very odd ... I'll do some more digging
Title: Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9
Post by: Ruth on May 14, 2023, 10:06:58 am
It is not  really important, Spuds...
I don't want you to spend a lot of time on this.

It is just a tiny mistake in german. And I think, noone does really notice it....
...except me. :wink: