Follow-ups Disable registration during install [Was: Re: CAPTCHA font] CAPTCHA font February 27, 2013, 07:30:02 pm As mentioned on sm.org, I'm not clear over the fonts used in SMF/Wedge/Elk as being licensed for redistribution. I should note: I'm no lawyer, I'm not sure what the state of play is, and I've 'suggested' to SMF that they contact Ray Larabie to find out what the position is.I don't know if they reached some agreement way back when, or not, but in the interim I replaced the fonts with my own. It's a crazy-tiny file because it only covers the A-Z glyphs needed for the CAPTCHA and it's a chunky font, so it should be reasonably good for users.Licence for the font is CC-BY-SA-3.0. I just want to make you guys aware that I think there's an issue and here's a replacement you can use should you be so inclined - you may need to adjust the dimensions used in the CAPTCHA code, not sure.
Re: CAPTCHA font Reply #2 – February 27, 2013, 07:40:06 pm Nice Arantor, probably safer just to change and be sure!
Re: CAPTCHA font Reply #3 – February 27, 2013, 07:44:43 pm That was exactly my thinking.I'm going to be looking at replacing the audio files at some point too. I mean, I'm going to feel a bit daft if someone now produces evidence of an agreement, but at least we know there are options out there if that doesn't happen And more options is usually a good thing.
Re: CAPTCHA font Reply #4 – February 27, 2013, 07:48:40 pm We could badly, and Britishly, make our own
Re: CAPTCHA font Reply #5 – February 27, 2013, 08:00:12 pm Quote from: Arantor – February 27, 2013, 07:30:02 pmAs mentioned on sm.org, I'm not clear over the fonts used in SMF/Wedge/Elk as being licensed for redistribution. I should note: I'm no lawyer, I'm not sure what the state of play is, and I've 'suggested' to SMF that they contact Ray Larabie to find out what the position is.I don't know if they reached some agreement way back when, or not, but in the interim I replaced the fonts with my own. It's a crazy-tiny file because it only covers the A-Z glyphs needed for the CAPTCHA and it's a chunky font, so it should be reasonably good for users.Licence for the font is CC-BY-SA-3.0. I just want to make you guys aware that I think there's an issue and here's a replacement you can use should you be so inclined - you may need to adjust the dimensions used in the CAPTCHA code, not sure.Thank you for the heads-up. You're right, the license is not an open/free license. I am not aware of anyone (outside us) ever using/installing the fonts directly (which is what the license doesn't allow), but every user has the opportunity to do so easily because we include ttf files. This is not an acceptable use, per author's terms, in my reading. And custom agreements don't change that anyway.Custom agreement are custom, they are not a free/open license - which is granted to everyone.So, yes, we are changing these fonts.Thanks!
Re: CAPTCHA font Reply #6 – February 27, 2013, 08:00:58 pm Quote from: Trekkie101 – February 27, 2013, 07:48:40 pmWe could badly, and Britishly, make our own Yeah. Have the alphabet ending with another S. And an extra U after O.
Re: CAPTCHA font Reply #7 – February 27, 2013, 08:10:06 pm Quote from: Trekkie101 – February 27, 2013, 07:48:40 pmWe could badly, and Britishly, make our own Aw hell yeah!Quote from: TestMonkey – February 27, 2013, 08:00:12 pmThank you for the heads-up. You're right, the license is not an open/free license. I am not aware of anyone (outside us) ever using/installing the fonts directly (which is what the license doesn't allow), but every user has the opportunity to do so easily because we include ttf files in the packages. This is not an acceptable use, per author's terms, in my reading. And custom agreements don't change that anyway.Custom agreement are custom, they are not a free/open license - which is granted to everyone.So, yes, we are changing these fonts.Thanks!The question is murkier than that... at what point does it become 'used'? I once wrote a CAPTCHA mod for SMF which made use of a couple of these fonts... is that 'usage'? It's invoking a library to draw them, after all.I don't know, I think however you look at it, it's murky. Oldiesmann did make the point that the fonts were in use before that licence was introduced, so it's entirely possible they are under a suitable licence, or were at the time. But I'd still want confirmation to be sure.If it helps, I made my font this evening with http://fontstruct.com/ - I cannot find anywhere it says they have to be credited, and the licensing doc does make it clear that the designer retains the rights.Quote from: Antechinus – February 27, 2013, 08:00:58 pmYeah. Have the alphabet ending with another S. And an extra U after O. That is a fantastic idea too. I think I'm going to put that into the next one
Re: CAPTCHA font Reply #8 – February 27, 2013, 08:48:13 pm Quote from: Arantor – February 27, 2013, 08:10:06 pmQuote from: TestMonkey – February 27, 2013, 08:00:12 pmThank you for the heads-up. You're right, the license is not an open/free license. I am not aware of anyone (outside us) ever using/installing the fonts directly (which is what the license doesn't allow), but every user has the opportunity to do so easily because we include ttf files in the packages. This is not an acceptable use, per author's terms, in my reading. And custom agreements don't change that anyway.Custom agreement are custom, they are not a free/open license - which is granted to everyone.So, yes, we are changing these fonts.Thanks!The question is murkier than that... at what point does it become 'used'? I once wrote a CAPTCHA mod for SMF which made use of a couple of these fonts... is that 'usage'? It's invoking a library to draw them, after all.I don't know, I think however you look at it, it's murky. Oldiesmann did make the point that the fonts were in use before that licence was introduced, so it's entirely possible they are under a suitable licence, or were at the time. But I'd still want confirmation to be sure.Personally, I don't see the need for confirmations, nor do I think the issue is complicated. I think it's simple: on an open/free license, you can always rely upon. It does what it says it does, it doesn't have murky cases that would 'forbid' use (otherwise actually there is place for very fun edge cases too), and it is granted perpetually, and, to everyone. (no privilege, no discrimination).This is not an open/free license, it's a proprietary freeware. Simple answer: we take it out and no longer bother with it.Personally, I would do the same with a mod like you mentioned. Indeed I can see how the use by a mod through a library can be interpreted both ways (afaics), both as use through the software providing it (i.e. SMF), and as use of the fonts to create something by third party users (though still through the software). I would simply discourage the continuing use of these fonts.
Re: CAPTCHA font Reply #9 – February 27, 2013, 09:12:57 pm Well, that's the thing... we don't know what licence they're under. For all we know, they might have been under an open licence back then and used as such. Unlikely, sure, but that's why I'd like confirmation.You're entirely right, replacing it with a proper open licence would be advantageous but that would appear to be beyond them. Don't fix what isn't broken and all that.
Re: CAPTCHA font Reply #10 – April 12, 2013, 11:44:00 am Since I'm stuck with the computer (and since Arantor posted about that at sm.org), I started looking at possible alternatives.Possible replacements for Forgotten Futurist:http://openfontlibrary.org/en/font/vdshttp://openfontlibrary.org/en/font/onilescahttp://openfontlibrary.org/en/font/la-chataLicense: OFL.Now I'll search for something similar to Kimberley.That said: do we really need to find similar fonts? Can't we just use "others"?
Re: CAPTCHA font Reply #11 – April 12, 2013, 11:55:18 am Kimberley:http://openfontlibrary.org/en/font/xoloniumhttp://openfontlibrary.org/en/font/ponyo (the "a" is quite different and also the "v")http://openfontlibrary.org/en/font/hobby-of-night (not very similar, but it could be interesting)
Re: CAPTCHA font Reply #12 – April 12, 2013, 12:20:14 pm Can't we just drop captcha with the better questions now?
Re: CAPTCHA font Reply #13 – April 12, 2013, 02:49:07 pm Ema: You don't need to have similar fonts. You just need to have some fonts that are suitably licensed and suitably readable. Uniqueness is quite useful, too.IchBin: It's not a strong argument, unfortunately. Unless you're going to be getting the questions at install time, you're going to be leaving admins without any defences out of the box. That doesn't seem wise to me. Getting questions at install time has its own issues, too.
Re: CAPTCHA font Reply #14 – April 16, 2013, 12:19:04 pm Okay, another bit of selection, I would use some (or all, why not! Maybe having different fonts at different levels) of the following:http://openfontlibrary.org/en/font/vdshttp://openfontlibrary.org/en/font/hobby-of-nighthttp://openfontlibrary.org/en/font/architect-s-daughterhttp://openfontlibrary.org/en/font/santa-barbara-streetshttp://openfontlibrary.org/en/font/new-shapehttp://openfontlibrary.org/en/font/press-start-2phttp://openfontlibrary.org/en/font/vshexagonica-v1-0-1http://openfontlibrary.org/en/font/klaudia-and-berenikahttp://openfontlibrary.org/en/font/segment14http://openfontlibrary.org/en/font/dotricehttp://openfontlibrary.org/en/font/douar-outlineall are OFL licensed.And about that:Code: [Select] $varyFonts = $imageType > 3 ? true : false;...I would do:Code: [Select] $varyFonts = $imageType > 1 ? true : false;Any objection?ETA: I still have to try how they look in an image...
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