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Topic: Iz it March yet? (Read 12519 times) previous topic - next topic - Topic derived from Re: Iz this thing feature loc...
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Iz it March yet?

Quote from: TestMonkey – I don't think I'd propose to feature-lock before March. There isn't much time anyway.
Hey, quotey to new topic is fun. ;D

Anywayz, I was just wondering when it is going to be March. From what I recall, March usually comes once a year, so my calendar must be wrong because it said March was three months ago. Obviously this wasn't correct, so March must be sometime in the next six months, if it is sticking to the normal once a year rule.

Of course, this might be one of those funny leap years and therefore may not have a March, in which case presumably March would come sometime next year, although not necessarily at the usual time.

March would be kinda handy for anyone messing with interface stuffz, because until March happens stuff will keep getting shoved into the interface at random intervals. That in turn makes things rather difficult to optimise.

There has been talk of a beta which, as far as I can recall, is usually something that would come after March (which is when the feature lock thing happens, yes?) So before we can haz beta, we need to haz March.

When is it? :D
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Re: Iz it March yet?

Reply #1 –

I'm kinda hoping Elkarte is aways from being ready for beta.

There is alot more work that needs to be done in terms of the theme. IMO. There shouldn't be hover effects unless it's cosmetic for desktops, as it's trouble-some on touch screens. Also, images need to be sprited. If it were up to me, I would redo all the icons. I think they should be silhouettes because those are more visually friendly on small screens. In addition, there are too many unless div containers in the theme. Aside from that, borders should be replaced with box-shadows, because borders don't render smoothly when rounded in some browsers when wrapped in parents containers that also have a border radius. Last but not least, there are too many images altogether...

Why aren't we using HTML5 tags or Microdata?

Just my opinion...

Re: Iz it March yet?

Reply #2 –

Yes I know there is more work to be done on the theme. I'm totally aware of that. However, minor presentation stuff doesn't have to be finalised before beta. Largely sorted, yes, but not finalised. That's what RC's are for.

And I wasn't asking when Elk beta could be released, but when we could have feature lock so a beta can be considered. I think feature lock is something worth talking about at this stage.
Master of Expletives: Now with improved family f@&king friendliness! :D

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Re: Iz it March yet?

Reply #3 –

My .02 cents on the theme is that the default theme needs some more work until it's ready, look and feel and making it easier for themers to pick up and customize better than in SMF.
As for the core, we've working on the refactoring and cleaning of the backend code, until we make it take the shape we want and reduce the redundancies to a level we're comfortable with. We've been starting to make addons on it, to make sure Elk makes a significant difference for modders too. On new features, Spuds has implemented them likes, one of the most wanted toys for people to play with. :) The roadmap on github should be updated to show the status.
I have not updated estimations, I'd rather do so when the work we've been doing gets the code to beta state.

Quote from: Antechinus – March would be kinda handy for anyone messing with interface stuffz, because until March happens stuff will keep getting shoved into the interface at random intervals. That in turn makes things rather difficult to optimise.
Well, I don't expect much trouble from additions. There's much more work on the code than additions anyway.

Quote from: Antechinus – Hey, quotey to new topic is fun. ;D
Yup! Ema does them fun 'n handy stuffs ;D
The best moment for testing your PR is right after you merge it. Can't miss with that one.

Re: Iz it March yet?

Reply #4 –

Breaking this down:

Quote from: Xarcell – There shouldn't be hover effects unless it's cosmetic for desktops, as it's trouble-some on touch screens.
Yes, it is cosmetic for desktops, and I think it is useful (and expected) for desktop controls to have a visual indication of hover. However, that could be removed for touchscreen. They're planning a separate mobile theme, but it would be fairly easy to remove hover effects on the desktop theme when it is being called by tablets.

I haven't heard anyone say hover effects are actually troublesome on touchscreen, just that they're pointless due to the lack of hover.

QuoteAlso, images need to be sprited.
Some already are, and I agree more should be.

QuoteIf it were up to me, I would redo all the icons. I think they should be silhouettes because those are more visually friendly on small screens.
With a separate mobile theme, desktop icons choice shouldn't be an issue, unless both call the same icons (dunno if they do). I wouldn't mind silhouette icons, but the Fugue set was chosen because it was available under a suitable license, and comprehensive enough to include anything that was needed.

QuoteIn addition, there are too many unless div containers in the theme. Aside from that, borders should be replaced with box-shadows, because borders don't render smoothly when rounded in some browsers when wrapped in parents containers that also have a border radius.
One problem is that realistically, IE8 support is necessary and will be for some time. That means the thing should look basically ok in IE8, preferably without trying to compensate with all sort of js shivs.

Also, box-shadow is more verbose and slower to render than basic borders, so I think it'd be better to use a design that didn't have the flaw you mentioned. That shouldn't be hard to arrange.


QuoteLast but not least, there are too many images altogether...
Agree. I'm working on cutting them down a bit. I stll think they have their place. CSS for gradients is a real mess at the moment and can seriously bloat your code, quite apart from the IE8 issue. In another five years, it'll probably be a piece of cake. Feel free to add any ideas you have.


QuoteWhy aren't we using HTML5 tags or Microdata?
HTML5 tags are on the to do list, AFAIK. I want to add some of the WAI-ARIA stuff for better a11y too. The whole point of HTML5 is tags a11y really, since sighted users don't care about markup (unless they're code junkies, which most aren't).
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Re: Iz it March yet?

Reply #5 –

Quote from: TestMonkey – My .02 cents on the theme is that the default theme needs some more work until it's ready, look and feel and making it easier for themers to pick up and customize better than in SMF.
Totally agree with that. Although, I will say ( again :D ) that all we can really do is clean up the CSS as much as possible. I have some ideas about that. If themers are still too scared to touch it, there's ultimately not much that can be done about that, apart from educating themers.


QuoteWell, I don't expect much trouble from additions. There's much more work on the code than additions anyway.
Well just as a couple of examples, off the top of my head...

Yesterday I found out how teh follow ups work. You may recall that episode. :D Now they're a cool thing to have, but more stuff to fit into the gui and css*. Also, there are the ideas kicking around about possible tabs for categories/unread/whatever, and a few other things. So that's more stuff to account for, if it is implemented. It can (like any other coding decision) have flow on effects as to how the whole lot is best arranged. So, at some point peeps will be wondering what the limit is.

I think it may be time to start drawing a line in the sand on features. Not my call, but a useful suggestion IMO.


*Not entirely happy with the current implementation, but have some ideas.
Master of Expletives: Now with improved family f@&king friendliness! :D

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Re: Iz it March yet?

Reply #6 –

QuoteThere shouldn't be hover effects unless it's cosmetic for desktops, as it's trouble-some on touch screens.
Just to note, the menu hover stuff should be fine as the JQ plug we use is touch device aware. On Android, iOS, Windows Phone 7 and IE10 (with touchscreen), first touch will open an associated submenu, second will follow the link.  Mouse and keyboard accessibility works as normal for desktop browsers.

Re: Iz it March yet?

Reply #7 –

Just remembered something, which was discussed ages ago but may have been forgotten (meaning I forgot :D).

It would be cool to change the current way icons are displayed, as much as possible, to use pseudo elements, rather than inline images or background images on a "real" HTML element. This will be better, since the pseudo can be sized in pixels, and therefore will not increase in size as text size is increased in the browser. That means no wrong bits of sprites showing. It also means less markup. Background images on pseudo elements are fine back to IE8.

Quickbuttons is an obvious example of where this could work well. Not sure if we can use it everywhere. Problem is that combining it with php is difficult (may be possible with combo of js and php) so in some places it could make for an awful lot of css. Since pseudos aren't "real" HTML elements, you can't just put them in the markup and use php to calll the right bit inside them. You probably could use js to append them and use php inside your js, to call the right bit. Not sure how far the idea can realistically be pushed.
Master of Expletives: Now with improved family f@&king friendliness! :D

Sources code: making easy front end changes difficult since 1873. :P

Re: Iz it March yet?

Reply #8 –

QuoteWhy aren't we using HTML5 tags or Microdata?
HTML5 is work in progress, please see what Spuds and TE have done already: https://github.com/elkarte/Elkarte/search?q=html5&type=Issues

If there's something in particular you may want to do on it, please feel free to do it and submit it to the repository.
The best moment for testing your PR is right after you merge it. Can't miss with that one.

Re: Iz it March yet?

Reply #9 –

Quote from: TestMonkey –
QuoteWhy aren't we using HTML5 tags or Microdata?
HTML5 is work in progress, please see what Spuds and TE have done already: https://github.com/elkarte/Elkarte/search?q=html5&type=Issues

If there's something in particular you may want to do on it, please feel free to do it and submit it to the repository.

If I had time, I would just rework the theme altogether and see what you guys like and don't like. However, my wife has forbid me to work for free anymore. So I'll try to slide in what I can, when I can. First, I gotta get Elk installed locally, which I haven't been able to do yet.

Re: Iz it March yet?

Reply #10 –

FYI, I knocked off a couple of superfluous divs last night. I'm rather over the divitis myself. :)
Master of Expletives: Now with improved family f@&king friendliness! :D

Sources code: making easy front end changes difficult since 1873. :P

Re: Iz it March yet?

Reply #11 –

mmm.... March 2014 could be a nice period for... well you know, don't you?
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Re: Iz it March yet?

Reply #12 –

Umm, does it start with "F"?
Master of Expletives: Now with improved family f@&king friendliness! :D

Sources code: making easy front end changes difficult since 1873. :P

Re: Iz it March yet?

Reply #13 –

mmm... "F" for "Forum"? :P

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