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Project Support => General ElkArte discussions => Topic started by: ahrasis on July 28, 2016, 10:13:22 pm

Title: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: ahrasis on July 28, 2016, 10:13:22 pm
I am shopping around for VPS and the above question come into my mind. So I was wondering, those big forums, how do they handle their users when they are using the forum simultaneously? Normal server would have been congested and jammed if it is used simultaneously like that. So, what is the server specs and software normally used by them? Do share your knowledge, experience or thoughts. I am interested to learn more about this.
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: meetdilip on July 29, 2016, 12:34:08 am
All they need is enough bandwidth, a good processor and enough RAM. Value of these vary according to the traffic they receive
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: ahrasis on July 29, 2016, 12:39:16 am
Ok. That're the specs but what about software setup?
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: meetdilip on July 29, 2016, 03:03:19 am
You could most things with cPanel.
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: emanuele on July 29, 2016, 03:48:04 am
From what I gather around the forums, I understood nowadays, most of the big forums are using more or less the "usual" stuff: of course linux+apache+mysql+php (LAMP) then nginx "in front" of apache to basically handle all the static files (nging is lighter and faster than apache+php AFAIU so it's better when there is no need to start php at all, i.e. static files). Then a search server, usually Shpinx, to reduce the load on mysql during searches (that is the most complex stuff done on the database).

This of course goes for the common php forums, if you want to go with something else, then replace php (and anything that is required by it) with the software of your choice (for example node.js) ... more or less.
I understood that Discourse (written in Ruby) is distributed only via a Docker (https://www.docker.com/) container (that is a sort of "thing" that contains anything the software needs in order to run except the OS).

The exact specifications really, really depend on what is your traffic. It can go from a simple shared hosting (I've see in the realm of 1M+ forums hosted on shared) up to multiple dedicated servers with specific roles (web-server, mail-server, sql-server, reverse-proxy) with more or less redundancy.

I'm not sure how cPanel is that useful in most of the "big" forums... if you don't know what you are doing (i.e. you just click here and there like me) it's likely you pay someone to take care of the servers, otherwise everything crumbles at the first problem...
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: meetdilip on July 29, 2016, 04:42:24 am
If I understand correctly, similar to webmin/virtualmin, cPanel to have a one click installer. Like, for mail server they have Dovecot and the likes, you can also install LAMP stack with guidance from the web panel.
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: ahrasis on July 29, 2016, 07:04:05 am
Quote from: emanuele – most of the big forums are using more or less the "usual" stuff: of course linux+apache+mysql+php (LAMP)
Thank you @emanuele. I think I got this basic one covered but these other suggestions I need to research some more.

Quote from: emanuele – then nginx "in front" of apache to basically handle all the static files (nging is lighter and faster than apache+php AFAIU so it's better when there is no need to start php at all, i.e. static files).
I'd say this static files' handling is smart and wise.

Quote from: emanuele – Then a search server, usually Shpinx, to reduce the load on mysql during searches (that is the most complex stuff done on the database).
I am not familiar with this Sphinx but this search server is also smart and wis.

Quote from: emanuele – The exact specifications really, really depend on what is your traffic. It can go from a simple shared hosting (I've see in the realm of 1M+ forums hosted on shared) up to multiple dedicated servers with specific roles (web-server, mail-server, sql-server, reverse-proxy) with more or less redundancy.
I have not yet test the multiple servers yet but already got its documentation ready (ISPConfig3).

For the time being I still use my own server (linux-ubuntu+apache+mysql+php) for all the testings. I will research about all the suggestions.

Thanks guys.
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: ahrasis on July 29, 2016, 07:11:50 am
Just sharing the speedtest from my home server (done via my Note3) http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/a/2097267934
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: emanuele on July 29, 2016, 07:45:56 am
Quote from: meetdilip – If I understand correctly, similar to webmin/virtualmin, cPanel to have a one click installer. Like, for mail server they have Dovecot and the likes, you can also install LAMP stack with guidance from the web panel.
As usual, it all depends on what you want to achieve:
https://features.cpanel.net/topic/sphinx-with-cpanel <= if you want to use Sphinx, cPanel is of no help.
https://features.cpanel.net/topic/as-a-server-administrator-i-want-standalone-nginx-supported-as-an-alternative-to-apache-so-that-i-can-offer-faster-speed-and-lower-load-on-smallers-servers <= if you want to use nginx you'll have to wait until they implement it

Of course, with cPanel you can do most of the things people need, but once you scale up to a certain level, cPanel becomes just a tool to help the web-admin to do the mundane tasks, while the sysadmin job will be done by someone with such a knowledge to do the job. ;)
It all depends where you want to set the level.
I've "worked" for people with dedicated servers that (the owners) only had access to a kind of limited cPanel interface, while the sysadmin part was managed by the hosting (of course paid).
There is no "right way" here as in many other situations, there are a range of possible alternatives from which you can pick. ;)
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: ahrasis on July 29, 2016, 02:13:58 pm
cPanel is a paid software which I do not prefer to use. I am using ISPConfig 3 and will stay with it as it has all the advantages to create multiple dedicated servers with as well as their mirrors, if needed. One can also become a subscribed member and get all the support he needs.
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: meetdilip on July 29, 2016, 02:56:03 pm
cPanel costs about $12 per month per license.
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: ahrasis on July 29, 2016, 11:08:31 pm
Noted that @meetdilip. I'd still prefer ISPConfig 3 for control panel as I only use it for personal / private use. Besides, I'm already being used to it.
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: Keiro on July 31, 2016, 12:26:19 pm
Quote from: meetdilip – cPanel costs about $12 per month per license.

InterWorx (http://interworx.com) costs $7/mo for a VPS license, $20/mo for a Dedicated Server license.

Also, disclaimer: I run a web-hosting company here at EidolonHost (https://eidolonhost.com). For most use-cases, even a small $5 VPS from DigitalOcean (http://digitalocean.com), Vultr (http://vultr.com) and many other providers can run a forum fairly easily if you know how to configure your VPS to your exact liking.

As for me, my setup's that I have InterWorx's Single Domain license, usually only available to authorized Resellers (of which I am one and can get you the license), which is free for those who need just one domain on their VPS, running on EidolonHost.com because it simplifies management of everything for me.

There is such a thing as too much messing with things. :P But, it really is up to you how you decide you want to proceed. :)
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: ahrasis on July 31, 2016, 01:45:08 pm
Quote from: Keiro – ...if you know how to configure your VPS to your exact liking.
I am looking more on how to configure VPS other than its specification or provider for big forum. I am running my own private server, so I think this should not be that difficult.
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: Keiro on July 31, 2016, 01:55:07 pm
Quote from: ahrasis –
Quote from: Keiro – ...if you know how to configure your VPS to your exact liking.
I am looking more on how to configure VPS other than its specification or provider for big forum. I am running my own private server, so I think this should not be that difficult.

Aaaah. In that case, what OS and what're you looking to configure? Answer that and I can get you guides to just about all you need.
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: ahrasis on July 31, 2016, 02:01:11 pm
Well, basically I build my own private server based on this https://www.howtoforge.com/perfect-server-ubuntu-14.04-apache2-php-mysql-pureftpd-bind-dovecot-ispconfig-3. I learned that this could also work on vps except some say that it is better to run vps without ispconfig3 especially if you running just one but big forum / site. For this thread, I am looking for the right specs to run a big forum / site as well as the right softwares which @emanuele has listed some, above. Any inputs are very much welcome.
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: Keiro on July 31, 2016, 02:37:33 pm
Quote from: ahrasis – Well, basically I build my own private server based on this https://www.howtoforge.com/perfect-server-ubuntu-14.04-apache2-php-mysql-pureftpd-bind-dovecot-ispconfig-3. I learned that this could also work on vps except some say that it is better to run vps without ispconfig3 especially if you running just one but big forum / site. For this thread, I am looking for the right specs to run a big forum / site as well as the right softwares which @emanuele has listed some, above. Any inputs are very much welcome.

ISPConfig 3 is a pretty good set-up, to be honest. A couple more questions, then: 1. How hands-on do you want to get with the configuration and the like? 2. What's your preferred web server config? That is, apache or nginx or what have you.
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: radu81 on July 31, 2016, 02:41:21 pm
Quote from: Keiro – For most use-cases, even a small $5 VPS from DigitalOcean (http://digitalocean.com), Vultr (http://vultr.com) and many other providers can run a forum fairly easily if you know how to configure your VPS to your exact liking.
Agree and I can add Linode to the list, provider that doubled the RAM for all plans a couple of months ago.
And if you don't know how to configure your VPS (like me) there is ServerPilot.io which can install and configure Nginx in front of apache, mysql, php. For more details https://serverpilot.io/features
I am using Linode and Serverpilot for a year, and never been happier.

The idea of using an unmanaged vps scared me in the beggining, but I can say it's easier for me to use serverpilot rathar than Cpanel or other panel. I also learned some basic linux commands which are more quicker to use than any panel

edit: I use the free plan on Serverpilot
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: ahrasis on July 31, 2016, 09:26:46 pm
Quote from: Keiro – ISPConfig 3 is a pretty good set-up, to be honest. A couple more questions, then: 1. How hands-on do you want to get with the configuration and the like? 2. What's your preferred web server config? That is, apache or nginx or what have you.
1. As hands-on as it could be.
2. Well, for now, I am looking for one apache and one nginx, the later being a reversed proxy to the first.

Quote from: radu81 – which can install and configure Nginx in front of apache, mysql, php.
I am very interested and almost definitely looking for this. I learned that using nginx as a reversed proxy to apache can handle a high amount of users for big forum / site simultaneously. Any links to tutorials for this  are highly appreciated.
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: Nifty on August 12, 2016, 02:54:12 am
What is a Big Forum for you ?

I run a ~1M Posting, 120k Threads & 500-600 concurrent User Forum.

Moving from Apache to Nginx will give you a real benefit as Apache is a resource Hog ( Memory )
Moving from Mysql/MariaDB based Search to Spinx or if possible to Google search will remove a very noticeable load from the database.

I would be very careful about Configuration Tools. They add additional dependencies (used php versions,support of Webserver & Database versions ... ) to you system which might course more trouble than they resolve. I don't use any external Configuration tools anymore - you don't tweak your server every day, it is a once setup and if necessary tweak story. And it is really nice if you know for sure what has been changed.

I would try using external Mail solutions as well - setting up a working & secure Email server is a demanding task.

My last big change was to move all the parts into docker containers, this comes very handy if you upgrade versions or have to move to a different server.
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: radu81 on August 12, 2016, 05:59:57 am
Quote from: Nifty – What is a Big Forum for you ?

I run a ~1M Posting, 120k Threads & 500-600 concurrent User Forum.
for me this is a big forum
Title: Re: VPS - The Server Specs And Softwares Used For Big Forums?
Post by: ahrasis on August 12, 2016, 09:30:57 am
@Nifty that is a big forum, congratulations.

I am still undecided whether to use nginx alone or nginx as a reversed proxy to apache. My readings so far seem more favourable to the later.

And sphinx is one of the idea that seems good. But how do we move to google search again?

I am not so sure about any tweaks but as said, I am planning to use ubuntu 14.04.5 with LAMP and nginx as its reversed proxy.

I am planning to use gmail for all my emails. I am already using this setup in my current private server.

I am not so sure about your post last part but I successfully established multi php server where I can change from 5.5 to 5.6 or 7.0 php version easily using ondrej/php ppa.

The trick is to add the ppa and update before installing any php version. There are few more tricks for it but those who need it may simply ask.

I am not in a rush and currently testing LAMP server plus nginx as a reversed proxy internally. If everything work good, I will move a proper server.