Grumbling about bugs - Was: [WIP] ElkArte 1.0 Release Candidate 1 - release notes

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Re: Grumbling about bugs - Was: [WIP] ElkArte 1.0 Release Candidate 1 - release notes

Reply #15 – March 28, 2014, 03:52:53 pm

Beta 3 definitely, unless you want to do SMF 2 "release candidates".

Realistically, this thing aint ready for a real RC yet. In my understanding, a real RC is when you have all outstanding issues fixed, and are just trying to see if any new ones pop up before you call the thing stable. Elk's not quite there yet.

Re: Grumbling about bugs - Was: [WIP] ElkArte 1.0 Release Candidate 1 - release notes

Reply #16 – March 28, 2014, 04:03:30 pm

Quote from: groundup – March 28, 2014, 03:19:15 pmRelease often and push hard use of plugins

Quote from: Antechinus – March 28, 2014, 03:52:53 pmBeta 3 definitely, unless you want to do SMF 2 "release candidates". Realistically, this thing aint ready for a real RC yet. In my understanding, a real RC is when you have all outstanding issues fixed, and are just trying to see if any new ones pop up before you call the thing stable. Elk's not quite there yet.

Both methods are useful. I'd rather see 6 or 8 betas than 3 RCs. More than 1 RC release should be rare.

Re: Grumbling about bugs - Was: [WIP] ElkArte 1.0 Release Candidate 1 - release notes

Reply #17 – March 28, 2014, 04:06:50 pm

What does "push hard use of plugins" have to do with trying to get 1.0 stable? I don't get it. Surely plugins are customisations you add to a release after it's stable.

Re: Grumbling about bugs - Was: [WIP] ElkArte 1.0 Release Candidate 1 - release notes

Reply #18 – March 28, 2014, 04:22:14 pm

Quote from: Antechinus – March 28, 2014, 04:06:50 pmWhat does "push hard use of plugins" have to do with trying to get 1.0 stable? I don't get it. Surely plugins are customisations you add to a release after it's stable.

Dunno. I just like the release often part.

groundup surely has an explanation.

Re: Grumbling about bugs - Was: [WIP] ElkArte 1.0 Release Candidate 1 - release notes

Reply #19 – March 28, 2014, 07:36:54 pm

It's all about prioritizing bugs. If an issue is an edge case, it shouldn't be blocking. If it's about getting the theme to look even better, it's not blocking. If there aren't blocking bugs, release it. Releases get attention; attention gets developers; developers fix bugs. More events in the code means less worrying about edge cases. You can even have a plugin fix a bug before a release. More events also means a lot less (hopefully zero) touching the code. So, you can just overwrite the file and be done with it.

Re: Grumbling about bugs - Was: [WIP] ElkArte 1.0 Release Candidate 1 - release notes

Reply #20 – March 28, 2014, 07:45:37 pm

Depends what you want to call "blocking". I wouldn't want to take it to the level of doing a "Microsoft stable".

But yeah I can see the sense, to a degree. It does seem a bit bonkers to go overboard on plugins for everything that really should be fixed in the codebase. That's just going to piss people off.

Re: Grumbling about bugs - Was: [WIP] ElkArte 1.0 Release Candidate 1 - release notes

Reply #21 – March 28, 2014, 08:09:59 pm

My definitions:
blocker - something that breaks *badly the "user" experience (e.g. a call to undefined function, a feature that doesn't work as expected, an unreadable text because it's the same color of the background, a menu that doesn't work at all on a supported browser, etc.),
important to fix - something that makes the script look bad, but that doesn't break the overall user experience (e.g. an undefined index on an hardly used page or in the admin panel, a button without background, a 1px error in positioning of a non-prominent element, some inconsistency in the mark-up, etc.),
nice to fix - anything else.

Of course "blockers" are bugs that must be fixed before a release. "Important to fix" are bugs that would be of course important to fix before a release, but if a date has been set and it's already gone, I wouldn't mind put a note in the release notes and in case plan a micro release with the fix. "Nice to fix" are bug that can stay there since either a micro release or the next minor if no micro are planned.

Re: Grumbling about bugs - Was: [WIP] ElkArte 1.0 Release Candidate 1 - release notes

Reply #22 – March 29, 2014, 06:36:13 pm

Quote from: Antechinus – March 28, 2014, 07:45:37 pmDepends what you want to call "blocking". I wouldn't want to take it to the level of doing a "Microsoft stable". But yeah I can see the sense, to a degree. It does seem a bit bonkers to go overboard on plugins for everything that really should be fixed in the codebase. That's just going to piss people off.

Microsoft stable? You mean the massive memory leaks of Windows 98?

Or the rushed completion of Windows ME?

Oh, of course you mean the half-assed implementation of every damn feature in Windows Vista?

No, I guess you're referring to more of the backwards momentum of Windows 8's shotgun marriage of the Windows desktop and Metro.

Please, define what you mean by stable.

Re: Grumbling about bugs - Was: [WIP] ElkArte 1.0 Release Candidate 1 - release notes

Reply #23 – March 29, 2014, 06:45:36 pm

Zackly. Would hate to see "Elk stable release" equivalent to "Microsoft stable release" and everyone told "Oh don't worry, we have a plethora of plug-ins". That seems like an exercise in foot shooting to me.

But as long as it's done sensibly (meaning more conservatively than he probably wants it to be

) I can see what Josh is on about.

ETA: BTW, I noticed that W7 is about the only MS OS that didn't make your crap list. There's a reason why I stuck to it and avoided W8.

Re: Grumbling about bugs - Was: [WIP] ElkArte 1.0 Release Candidate 1 - release notes

Reply #24 – March 29, 2014, 06:50:10 pm

Quote from: Antechinus – March 29, 2014, 06:45:36 pmZackly. Would hate to see "Elk stable release" equivalent to "Microsoft stable release" and everyone told "Oh don't worry, we have a plethora of plug-ins". That seems like an exercise in foot shooting to me.

But as long as it's done sensibly (meaning more conservatively than he probably wants it to be ) I can see what Josh is on about.

ETA: BTW, I noticed that W7 is about the only MS OS that didn't make your crap list. There's a reason why I stuck to it and avoided W8.

I should have added in Windows 95, to be honest. But I doubt anyone, in their right mind, fondly remembers any of the Windows 9x releases.

Windows 3.1, XP and 7 are their only true success stories.

Re: Grumbling about bugs - Was: [WIP] ElkArte 1.0 Release Candidate 1 - release notes

Reply #25 – March 29, 2014, 06:52:39 pm

Yup. I used XP for yonks until my old pooter blew up, then went straight to W7. I suspect W9 will be pretty good too.

Re: Grumbling about bugs - Was: [WIP] ElkArte 1.0 Release Candidate 1 - release notes

Reply #26 – March 29, 2014, 06:59:08 pm

Sorry for completely derailing this topic. crawls back inside her hole

Re: Grumbling about bugs - Was: [WIP] ElkArte 1.0 Release Candidate 1 - release notes

Reply #27 – March 29, 2014, 07:38:28 pm

Windows 2000 too. nods

Re: Grumbling about bugs - Was: [WIP] ElkArte 1.0 Release Candidate 1 - release notes

Reply #28 – April 03, 2014, 06:57:21 pm

Ohh so you really want me to change the headers two times?

emanuele wonders if we can haz a beta 3 out before Easter.

Yeah, 2 weeks and a half, I suppose is doable.

Re: Grumbling about bugs - Was: [WIP] ElkArte 1.0 Release Candidate 1 - release notes

Reply #29 – April 04, 2014, 10:58:10 am

I just Well, I just realised that from my previous post here was 6 days ago, in the last 6 days we had 4 new bug reports.
TBH I don't see the situation as tragic as Antechinus is describing.

Also the current week is the first since October that there are days without commits to master (I worked mainly on the development branch).

So: few bugs to squash, not many bugs reported...what is wrong with an RC?