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Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9

Reply #45

Yes...it should tell the same on my test forum - but it does not

Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9

Reply #46

Maybe a syntax error in the help.german.php file is preventing it from loading?

Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9

Reply #47

It looks all proper to me, Spuds...

Code: [Select]
$helptxt['permissions_enable_deny'] = 'Das Verbieten von Berechtigungen erlaubt es dir, bestimmte Funktionen gewählten Benutzergruppen zu entziehen. Dazu erstellst du z.B. eine Benutzergruppe und verbietest dieser eine bestimmte Berechtigung.<br /><br />Benutze diese Option mit großer Vorsicht, da verbotene Berechtigungen den Benutzern nicht mehr zur Verfügung stehen, selbst wenn die Berechtigungen in einer anderen Gruppe erlaubt sind, der dieser Benutzer angehört.';
$helptxt['permissions_enable_postgroups'] = 'Das Aktivieren der Berechtigungen für beitragsbasierende Gruppen erlaubt das Zuweisen von Berechtigungen an Benutzer mit einer bestimmten Beitragszahl. Diese Berechtigungen werden zu den bereits vorhanden <em>addiert</em>.';

I was thinking before...maybe this english strings are still twice there with and without this "enable"?

And the file of my forum, which is picking those two strings out of the help file is picking one of the two english variants?

Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9

Reply #48

lol

I just saw it

it has to be permission...not permissions

Oh my goodness.... :embarrassed:  sorry, Spuds.



Edit:

The german text is there now. 

Maybe I should do something else now for a while....I start to become crazy with all this strings....  :zany_face:
Last Edit: March 25, 2023, 01:00:39 pm by Ruth

Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9

Reply #49

Quote from: Ruth –
....But this english string in the helpfile (on line 496) is also not really "up to date"? It should tell about "default" or "standard" instead of "global"?

Code: [Select]
$helptxt['permissions_board']  = 'If a board is set to \'Global,\' it means that the board will not have any special permissions.  \'Local\' means it will have its own permissions - separate from the global ones.  This allows you to have a board that has more or less permissions than another, without requiring you to set them for each and every board.';

I still don't know, how to solve this problem. In my eyes there are no "global settings" anymore.

There are only permission profiles:

The standard (which is set by default),
those 3 preformated profiles, you can select instead the standard
and those profiles you can create by yourself.

It seems wrong to me to talk about "global" and "local" here. It will confuse people. They need to select (or to create) another profile in some bords if they want other permissions than the standard.

There are a lot of other german strings, which are still using "global" or "local"....maybe the best to change all this old texts?



@Jorin

Was meinst du dazu? Ich finde diese Mixtur von alten und neuen Bezeichnungen und Erläuterungen sehr verwirrend.

Tw. sind sie auch offenkundig falsch. Es ist z.B. nicht möglich, "direkt innerhalb eines Boards mit lokalen Berechtigungen für jede Benutzergruppe individuelle Berechtigungen anzugeben". Man müsste für Änderungen der Gruppenberechtigungen zunächst mal ein weiteres Berechtigungprofil erstellen, das dann für das jeweilige Board ausgewählt wird, in dem die Berechtigungen anders sein sollen.



I tried to explain things here a bit. This is the "main" help string about permissions, displayed on the top of all sections about permissions:

english:
Code: [Select]
$helptxt['permissions'] = 'Permissions are how you either allow groups to, or deny groups from, doing specific things.<br /><br />You can modify multiple boards at once with the checkboxes, or look at the permissions for a specific group by clicking \'Modify.\'';

german(old):
Code: [Select]
$helptxt['permissions'] = 'Berechtigungen haben die Funktion, bestimmten Gruppen Aktionen zu erlauben oder zu verbieten<br /><br />Du kannst mit Hilfe der Checkboxen mehrere Boards gleichzeitig ändern oder die Berechtigungen einer bestimmten Benutzergruppe ändern, in dem du auf \'Ändern\' klickst.';

german(new):
Code: [Select]
$helptxt['permissions'] = 'Berechtigungen haben die Funktion, bestimmten Benutzergruppen Aktionen zu erlauben, sie einzuschränken oder zu verbieten. Dies geschieht durch generelle Gruppen-Berechtigungen sowie durch die vorgegebenen oder selbst erstellten Berechtigungsprofile, die in den Boards zur Anwendung kommen.<br /><br />Du kannst mit Hilfe der Checkboxen mehrere Boards gleichzeitig ändern. Im Standard-Berechtigungsprofil und in den selbst erstellten Berechtigungsprofilen kannst du die jeweils gewünschten Board-Berechtigungen von Benutzergruppen ändern und neu festlegen. Klicke dafür im betreffenden Berechtigungsprofil bei der jeweiligen Benutzergruppe auf \'Ändern\'.';

The old and the new popup of this string:

Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9

Reply #50

I noticed now, that this string on line 496 in the help files is no more used at all - but it is still in the files:

Code: [Select]
$helptxt['permissions_board'] = 'If a board is set to 'Global,' it means that the board will not have any special permissions.  'Local' means it will have its own permissions - separate from the global ones.  This allows you to have a board that has more or less permissions than another, without requiring you to set them for each and every board.';

Such old strings are sometimes really confusing while translating. :rolleyes:

It seems to me, that only some of the german strings have still "global" and "local" in it.
And those strings (and some others) I would change this way now:

In the permission files on line 64 - 70:

english:
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissions_modify_group'] = 'Modify Group';
$txt['permissions_general'] = 'General Permissions';
$txt['permissions_board'] = 'Default Board Profile Permissions';
$txt['permissions_board_desc'] = '<strong>Note</strong>: changing these board permissions will affect all boards currently assigned the &quot;Default&quot; permissions profile. Boards not using the &quot;Default&quot; profile will not be affected by changes to this page.';
$txt['permissions_commit'] = 'Save changes';
$txt['permissions_on'] = 'in profile';
$txt['permissions_local_for'] = 'Permissions for group';

german (old):
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissions_modify_group'] = 'Gruppe ändern';
$txt['permissions_general'] = 'Generelle Berechtigungen';
$txt['permissions_board'] = 'Globale Board-Berechtigungen';
$txt['permissions_board_desc'] = 'Bitte beachte, dass Änderungen am Standard-Profil sämtliche Boards betreffen, denen dieses Profil zugeordnet ist.';
$txt['permissions_commit'] = 'Änderungen speichern';
$txt['permissions_on'] = 'im Profil';
$txt['permissions_local_for'] = 'Lokale Berechtigungen für die Gruppe';

german (new):
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissions_modify_group'] = 'Gruppe ändern';
$txt['permissions_general'] = 'Generelle Berechtigungen';
$txt['permissions_board'] = 'Board-Berechtigungen im Standard-Profil';
$txt['permissions_board_desc'] = 'Bitte beachte, dass Änderungen im Standard-Berechtigungsprofil sämtliche Boards betreffen, denen dieses Profil gegenwärtig zugeordnet ist. Boards mit anderen Berechtigungsprofilen werden von Änderungen auf dieser Seite nicht betroffen.';
$txt['permissions_commit'] = 'Änderungen speichern';
$txt['permissions_on'] = 'im Profil';
$txt['permissions_local_for'] = 'Berechtigungen für die Gruppe';

This way there would be no irritation anymore about "global" and "local", if you edit such profiles or the permissions.

On line 66 "Default" is not really needed, but the german string could tell additional "Default" or "Standard". It means the same in this case. I think "Board Profile Permissions"/"Board-Berechtigungen" would be enough. But I changed this now to "Board-Berechtigungen im Standard-Profil".


In the permission files on line 19:

english:
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissions_profiles_desc'] = 'Permission profiles are assigned to individual boards to allow you to easily manage your security settings. From this area you can create, edit and delete permission profiles.';

german (old):
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissions_profiles_desc'] = 'Berechtigungsprofile können den einzelnen Boards zugeordnet werden, um die Sicherheitseinstellungen mit einfachen Mitteln zu verwalten. Hier kannst du diese Profile erstellen, editieren und löschen.';

german (new):
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissions_profiles_desc'] = 'Berechtigungsprofile werden den einzelnen Boards zugeordnet. In den Profilen wird festgelegt, welche Berechtigungen für die verschiedenen Benutzergruppen gelten sollen. Dies erlaubt es dir, deine Einstellungen hinsichtlich Zugriffsmöglichkeiten und Sicherheit auf einfache Weise zu verwalten. Hier kannst du diese Profile erstellen, ändern und löschen.';



In the permission files on line 132:

english:
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissionhelp_manage_permissions'] = 'This permission allows a user to edit all permissions of a membergroup, globally or for individual boards.';

german (old):
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissionhelp_manage_permissions'] = 'Diese Berechtigung ermöglicht das Ändern aller Berechtigungen einer Benutzergruppe bzw. eines Boards (global und lokal).';

german (new):
Code: [Select]
$txt['permissionhelp_manage_permissions'] = 'Diese Berechtigung ermöglicht das Ändern aller Berechtigungen der Benutzergruppen und den Berechtigungsprofilen der Boards.';



In the permission files on line 292:

english:
Code: [Select]
$txt['permission_by_board_desc'] = 'Here you can set which permission profile a board uses. You can create new permission profiles from the &quot;Edit Profiles&quot; menu.';

german (old):
Code: [Select]
$txt['permission_by_board_desc'] = 'Hier kannst du einstellen, ob ein Board die globalen Berechtigungen benutzt oder ein anderes Berechtigungsprofil verwendet. Solltest du lokale Berechtigungen verwenden, kannst du im betreffenden Board für jede Benutzergruppe individuelle Berechtigungen angeben.';

german (new):
Code: [Select]
$txt['permission_by_board_desc'] = 'Hier kannst du einstellen, welche Berechtigungsprofile in den Boards verwendet werden sollen. Im Abschnitt unter dem Button "Profile ändern" kannst du auch selbst neue Berechtigungsprofile erstellen.';
Last Edit: March 26, 2023, 11:39:16 am by Ruth

Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9

Reply #51

Quote from: Ruth – it has to be permission...not permissions
When I first saw that I thought it was a mistake as well :D ....
Quote from: Ruth – I noticed now, that this string on line 496 in the help files is no more used at all - but it is still in the files:
I'll mark it for removal in 2.0. 

So many of the language strings are difficult to find in the code as they are concatenated in loops, so you get ['something' + $varaiable]  This makes it very difficult to track down usage, and I've commented before that we need to stop doing that.

We also have different strings that say the same thing,  I've been told that was needed for translations in some instances possessive /plural / etc.  needs, but I still find it rather confusing.

Then there are things quad \\\\ escaping, and html entities in the strings, some of which are not needed

Anyway thank you very much for staying with this, I know its a lot of work!!

Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9

Reply #52

I want to have this proper done.  :smiley:  But when I started with this, I did not know, that it would be such a lot of work. There had been a lot of not translated strings (but we already did translate them years ago), also a lot typos, incorrect grammar or a mixture of formal and informal german, which looks terrible. The worsest for me was, that english and german strings had often not been on the same lines. This was time consuming, just to sort them for comparing.

I think, i understand you well, Spuds... I believe, that it is hard to deal in the codes with such a lot of strings.

But like you said: for proper grammar with translations sometimes more than one string is needed. At least in this parts on forum, members will see. Wrong grammar does not give a good impression of the forum. Admins and Moderators do also need proper explanations. If the grammar is wrong, it might lead to confusion or misunderstanding.

Maybe some things could be done easier and with less strings. For example: I don't understand, why words like "save" or "edit" on buttons have to be repeated this often in the language files? Could they not share the same strings?

I did about 15 files now, a few are left to do, but I hope they soon will be done now. In almost every very long file I found a lot of strings, which are no more used or are very old and just had been copied since years. The worsest one is the help file. :rolleyes: Some strings there are really pointless. They explain nothing, they just repeat the same with a bit different words, what you read already, before you click on the question mark.

Such strings could be removed in my eyes. Noone would miss them. :tongue: They just take a lot of time to controll them and take also a lot of space in the files.

Another example here in the permission file:

There are 16 strings about almost the same. I first needed to find out, which strings are used, before i could edit them. Then I sorted them in a different order:

The 8 strings on the top are in use, the 8 strings on the bottom are not used, they could be removed.

Code: [Select]
$txt['permissionname_post_draft'] = 'Kann Entwürfe von neuen Beiträgen speichern';
$txt['permissionhelp_post_draft'] = 'Dies ermöglicht den Benutzern, neue Beiträge als Entwürfe zu speichern um diese später fertig zu stellen.';
$txt['permissionname_post_autosave_draft'] = 'Automatisches Speichern von Entwürfen für neue Beiträge';
$txt['permissionhelp_post_autosave_draft'] = 'Dadurch werden während des Schreibens die Inhalte von neuen Beiträgen automatisch als Entwürfe zwischengespeichert. Das verhindert den Datenverlust bei Timeouts oder Verbindungsunterbrechungen zum Server. Die Einstellungen für das automatische Speichern werden im Admin-Center bei den Entwürfen festgelegt.';
$txt['permissionname_pm_draft'] = 'Kann Entwürfe für neue Private Mitteilungen speichern';
$txt['permissionhelp_pm_draft'] = 'Dies ermöglicht den Benutzern, neue Private Mitteilungen als Entwürfe zu speichern um diese später fertig zu stellen.';
$txt['permissionname_pm_autosave_draft'] = 'Automatisches Speichern von Entwürfen für neue PMs';
$txt['permissionhelp_pm_autosave_draft'] = 'Dadurch werden während des Schreibens die Inhalte von neuen Privaten Mitteilungen automatisch als Entwürfe zwischengespeichert. Das verhindert den Datenverlust bei Timeouts oder Verbindungsunterbrechungen zum Server. Die Einstellungen für das automatische Speichern werden im Admin-Center bei den Entwürfen festgelegt.';
// translator note: so many duplicates here? you might want to remove some...the following 8 strings are no more used:
$txt['permissionname_simple_post_draft'] = 'Kann Entwürfe von neuen Beiträgen speichern';
$txt['permissionhelp_simple_post_draft'] = 'Diese Berechtigung erlaubt dem Benutzer, Entwürfe von Beiträgen zu speichern, um diese später fertig zu stellen.';
$txt['permissionname_simple_post_autosave_draft'] = 'Automatisches Speichern von Entwürfen für neue Beiträge';
$txt['permissionhelp_simple_post_autosave_draft'] = 'Diese Berechtigung erlaubt dem Benutzer, seine Beiträge automatisch als Entwurf speichern zu lassen.';
$txt['permissionname_simple_pm_autosave_draft'] = 'Automatisches Speichern von Entwürfen für neue Mitteilungen';
$txt['permissionhelp_simple_post_autosave_draft'] = 'Diese Berechtigung erlaubt dem Benutzer, seine Beiträge automatisch als Entwurf speichern zu lassen.';
$txt['permissionname_simple_pm_draft'] = 'Kann Entwürfe für neue Mitteilungen speichern';
$txt['permissionhelp_simple_pm_draft'] = 'Diese Berechtigung erlaubt dem Benutzer, seine Beiträge automatisch als Entwurf speichern zu lassen.';

So there would be 4 permission strings and 4 help strings left. But I really think, 2 help strings would do it in this case as well? This draft-thing could be explained together for posts and PMs.

Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9

Reply #53

Quote from: Ruth – @Jorin

Was meinst du dazu? Ich finde diese Mixtur von alten und neuen Bezeichnungen und Erläuterungen sehr verwirrend.

Tw. sind sie auch offenkundig falsch. Es ist z.B. nicht möglich, "direkt innerhalb eines Boards mit lokalen Berechtigungen für jede Benutzergruppe individuelle Berechtigungen anzugeben". Man müsste für Änderungen der Gruppenberechtigungen zunächst mal ein weiteres Berechtigungprofil erstellen, das dann für das jeweilige Board ausgewählt wird, in dem die Berechtigungen anders sein sollen.

Ich habe damals bei den Sprachdateien angefangen, die Texte teilweise schon extrem umzubauen, um wirklich in allen Sprachdateien einheitlich zu bleiben, die maximalen Textlängen für Buttons zu berücksichtigen und vor allem verständlich und nachvollziehbare Texte anzubieten. In wenigen Fällen habe ich die Strings also wirklich verbogen, wo es mir sinnvoll schien. Man kann eben nicht alles rein wörtlich übersetzen, manches wirkt dann einfach unrund und nicht klar.

Also, wenn es nach mir geht, achte auf Einheitlichkeit. Wenn ein Admin eine Funktion im Adminbereich mit dem Begriff A findet, darf sie für die User im Forum nicht mit B bezeichnet werden. Das muss einfach passen.

Es wäre natürlich ideal, wenn die englischen Originaldateien schon ähnlich konsistent wären. Hier heißt ein Button z.B. "Quick Edit", das ausführliche Edit heißt aber "Modify".  :rolleyes:

Same in english:

At that time I started translating the language files, I sometimes extremely rebuild the texts in order to really remain consistent in all language files, to take into account the maximum text lengths for buttons and, above all, to offer understandable and comprehensible texts. So in a few cases I actually bent the strings where it made sense to me. You can't translate everything literally, some things just seem out of place and not clear then.

So, as far as I'm concerned, look for consistency. If an admin finds a function in the admin area with the term A, it must not be labeled B for the users in the forum. It just has to fit.

Of course, it would be ideal if the original english files were similarly consistent. For example here in the editor a button is called "Quick Edit", but the detailed edit is called "Modify". :rolleyes:

Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9

Reply #54

Quote from: Jorin – Of course, it would be ideal if the original english files were similarly consistent. For example here in the editor a button is called "Quick Edit", but the detailed edit is called "Modify". :rolleyes:

I think, we found a very good solution once for the posts with "Schnellkorrektur" (quick edit) and "ändern" (modify). There should be a difference, because those two buttons do different things.

Quote from: Jorin – So, as far as I'm concerned, look for consistency. If an admin finds a function in the admin area with the term A, it must not be labeled B for the users in the forum. It just has to fit.

I did that, Jorin.... For example I tried to change any "editieren" in the admin panel and in the helpstrings into "ändern". Actions/Buttons and their explainations should allways use the same words. I also found a lot of "Mitglieder" (members) and "User" again in a lot of german files. I changed them all to "Benutzer", if it was possible. I also tried to make the permission file strings more consistent and shorter.

Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9

Reply #55

@Jorin

I have not finished this files yet, but I noticed a mixture there as well.

For Addons different words are used in the german files:

"Addons", "Add-Ons", "Add-ons", "Modifikationen"... I also saw short "Mods" somewhere in the files.

How shall this be solved?

Maybe like this in texts:  Blablabla Modifkationen (Addons) bablabla.

And for Headers: Addons or Addon-Einstellungen

At the moment it looks like this:

Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9

Reply #56

What about plug-ins?  :tongue:  :wink:

Choose whatever you want.  :wink:  I think "Add-on" is the correct german spelling, so I would go for this.

Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9

Reply #57

Lol....okay, Jorin.

I just found a string, I was not sure at all, how to translate it:

Code: [Select]
$txt['upgrade_warning_already_done'] = 'You are already running <em>ElkArte %1$s</em> no upgrade is available!  You must <strong>delete</strong> the install directory and then proceed to <a href="%2$s">your forum</a>';

I did it this way:
Code: [Select]
$txt['upgrade_warning_already_done'] = 'Du verwendest bereits <em>ElkArte %1$s</em>, es ist kein Upgrade verfügbar! Du musst das Installationsverzeichnis <strong>löschen</strong> und dann mit <a href="%2$s">im Forum fortfahren.</a>';

Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9

Reply #58

Yes, English is tough to translate, Ruth.....

For example, the term "take out" has 3 different meanings:
It's very important to know which is actually meant

1 - prepared food you buy and eat somewhere else
2 - date
3 - kill someone.

And now that I think about it, the word "date" has 4 different meanings..

1 - a palm tree fruit
2 - a small, (hopefully) enjoyable, "get together"
3 - determine the age of something
4 - a particular day on a calendar

And "calendar" has 3 different meanings..

1 - a tabular register of days  in a week, month, or year
2 - an orderly list of scheduled activities
3 - a college or university catalog.

Quote from: Ruth – The worsest one is the help file. :rolleyes: Some strings there are really pointless. They explain nothing, they just repeat the same with a bit different words, what you read already, before you click on the question mark.

Yes, sometimes it is necessary to translate English into ... other English.

[BTW, I love the word "worsest" (which is not a real English word, but should be) as it's more clear than "worst" which when I hear it spoken I often confuse with German sausage - which I also love..]

Now, here's a photo of a fuel truck taken 50 years ago in Thailand

fueltruck.jpg

Do you know how the Thais say "Shell Oil" in Thai?


"Shell Oil"  :confounded:



Last Edit: March 31, 2023, 10:36:15 am by Steeley

// Deep inside every dilemma lies a solution that involves explosives //

Re: German language files (informal) for 1.1.9

Reply #59

Steeley, I bet, that there are a lot more such terms with different meanings in german than in english.
Like I said: the german language has less words, so this is just natural.
For example: heaven and sky - we have only one word for both meanings.

But I just found another english term  in the files with more than one meaning.
It had been translated funny and I was really laughing... :cheesy:

Order

1. If you want to buy something or if you go for a meal, then you sometimes order it first (in german: bestellen, Bestellung)
2. An order can also be a command, like: "Clean your room now!" (in german: befehlen, Befehl, Anordnung)
3. A certain order of sorted things, like the boards in a category (in german: Anordnung, Reihenfolge)

The last translator wrote "Bestellung" instead of "Reihenfolge",
which means, he ordered some boards, maybe he was hungry.  :tongue: