ElkArte Community

Extending Elk => Localization => Topic started by: Jorin on November 08, 2013, 08:50:24 am

Title: ElkArte german language files
Post by: Jorin on November 08, 2013, 08:50:24 am
I plan to start on translating the ElkArte language files into german (both formal and informal). Any thoughts? Do you want me NOT to start this little project (or to start)? Is anyone already working on it?

FYI: I created the german language files both formal and informal for SMF 2.x a while ago as modification. But because of little differences with the SMF team I only published them at SMFPortal.de.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: emanuele on November 08, 2013, 11:18:06 am
Hi Jorin,

Do it!
No way I would stop you or anyone else interested! ;D

At the moment we don't have any tool to help in translating, I started a bit of discussion about it here (http://www.elkarte.net/index.php?topic=575.msg4881#msg4881), I was trying to understand how Pootle works, and [SiNaN] proposed the tool he developed for SP. It looks like a wonderful piece of code, it should be possible to adapt it to Elk quite easily! :) (Mention @[SiNaN] is not easy, I have to hack the code somewhere :P)
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: Jorin on November 08, 2013, 12:13:15 pm
So there is no tool at the moment which I should use? And no one else working on the german files? In that case I would start the next days and translate the files one by one on till the package is complete.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: emanuele on November 08, 2013, 12:17:05 pm
:D

That reminds me I should start working on the Italian ones... O:-)
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on November 10, 2013, 04:48:57 pm
If you need help, I'm around, already translating a couple of OS products into German. :)

(In case of this process ever being streamlined, I'd suggest to just use array files.)
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: emanuele on November 10, 2013, 08:14:46 pm
Any suggestion is welcome!
I don't have many translation experience, and I don't know how I would like to do it, but I also know that if you ask 10 people you'll get 10 different answers. LOL
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on November 10, 2013, 08:19:23 pm
phpBB uses arrays.

Code: [Select]
"RANDOM_STRING" => "random string",
"SOME_OTHER" => "here's something different",
// ...

Works.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: emanuele on November 10, 2013, 08:38:59 pm
Ah, okay you meant the structure of the file itself! :D

At the moment we are using:
Code: [Select]
$txt['RANDOM_STRING'] = 'random string';
$txt['SOME_OTHER'] = 'here\'s something different';
// ...
Yep, a bit more verbose probably.
Is it so different in terms of approach to the translation?
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on November 10, 2013, 08:43:38 pm
That's not so different as long as it works.
Now we just need to team up for translating.

Is there even a language file in git?
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: emanuele on November 10, 2013, 09:48:35 pm
Yep, all the English language files are there:
https://github.com/elkarte/Elkarte/tree/master/themes/default/languages
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on November 10, 2013, 09:54:33 pm
In "themes"? WTF.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: TE on November 10, 2013, 10:12:47 pm
In "themes"? WTF.
yep, it's inherited from SMF .. I believe [Unknown] (or whoever placed those files there) put them inside the themes folder because it allows to use different "german" language files in different themes.. It's there since SMF 1.0, maybe even in YaBBSE..
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on November 10, 2013, 10:14:40 pm
In case a theme dev speaks different German...?

Now that's weird.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on November 10, 2013, 10:35:52 pm
mc_group_requests_none
mc_groupr_none_found

^ I see some redundancy here.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: TE on November 10, 2013, 10:38:27 pm
Maybe you want "Personal Messages" translated to "PM" in one theme (theme with small buttons and not much space for the text) and "Persönliche Mitteilungen" in another theme, because there's enough space for the full text..

But that's only a guess, it was implemented long time ago, years before I joined the SMF dev team  ;)
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: emanuele on November 10, 2013, 11:09:15 pm
In "themes"? WTF.
yep, it's inherited from SMF .. I believe [Unknown] (or whoever placed those files there) put them inside the themes folder because it allows to use different "german" language files in different themes.. It's there since SMF 1.0, maybe even in YaBBSE..
Yeah...nevertheless it's one of the things I proposed to move the languages "somewhere else".
TBH, today I remembered another thing I'd like to see: each language a different directory (much easier in case you need to delete something and much cleaner to me! :P).
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on November 10, 2013, 11:35:33 pm
A "common.php" would rock ("Add", "Member" and stuff).
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: emanuele on November 10, 2013, 11:58:12 pm
That's mostly index.english.php, things use "everywhere" (if I understood what you mean...but reading again I think I did not).
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on November 10, 2013, 11:59:14 pm
Oh, OK. Now that's a weird naming.   :-\
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on November 11, 2013, 12:31:25 am
TODO for any German translators: Find a good German word for "board" in opposite to "forum".
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: TE on November 11, 2013, 05:12:19 am

Yeah...nevertheless it's one of the things I proposed to move the languages "somewhere else".
TBH, today I remembered another thing I'd like to see: each language a different directory (much easier in case you need to delete something and much cleaner to me! :P).
Yep, definetly 100% agreed.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: TE on November 11, 2013, 07:45:31 am
 forumsearch0r,
thanks for your work on translations, but I had to reject the PR:
Quote
I'll close this PR for several reasons:
 1) your commits need to be signed-off (see our contributors guide for details)
 2) the PR title is x-rated, please use descriptive PR titles for future contributions.
 3) We still haven't decided how to handle translations.Most likely we'll have a seperate Tool for translation or we'll pull them in another repo (elkarte_languages). the main repo should not contain all translations,

However, please don't feel offended by rejecting your Pull request, we appreciate your hard work on translations. But let's discuss it on elkarte.net, first.
We need to determine an appropriate tool for translations first.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: Jorin on November 11, 2013, 08:31:47 am
Yep! Otherwise it can happen we work on two different sets of translations. If I had startet last weekend that would be fact right now.  :-X
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: Nao on November 11, 2013, 11:29:21 am
1) your commits need to be signed-off (see our contributors guide for details)
How ironic that, at the same time, I was rejecting a pull request by a Wedge contributor who'd also forgotten to sign-off their commit [1], *and* that was for a full German translation of the software... ;)
Hint for ElkArte: stop taking ideas from me! Just kidding, I actually love being able to put footnotes into another forum than mine. Real hint 1: ask your contributors to stop even thinking about using SourceTree. I know it's more common in the Bitbucket community than Github, but still, it'd be one less thing to think about. Real hint 2: your footnote implementation is broken, but you're probably not hardcore enough about it to realize. I'll let you have some fun on this, I had mine before :D
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: emanuele on November 11, 2013, 11:36:20 am
Arg...sorry for the misunderstanding!

Actually there is already a repository for the language packs:
https://github.com/elkarte/languages
though it has not been used "in a while"... well, now it's up-to-date, let's add its update to the list of things to do. O:-)

A different repo will allow to pack the files easily. ;D

I'd suggest something like this:
1) (optional but very welcome to avoid duplication) pick a file, post here to say which one you are going to work on,
2) translate it,
3) "commit" it: either pushing it to github if you feel comfortable doing so, or attaching it here and let someone else deal with the commit itself. :) In the case of the file attached here, at least the first time you do, it would be nice a single line declaration you understand the translation is going to be released under the same license of the script itself (i.e. BSD 3-clause), just a formality. ;)
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: emanuele on November 11, 2013, 11:42:02 am
Real hint 1: ask your contributors to stop even thinking about using SourceTree. I know it's more common in the Bitbucket community than Github, but still, it'd be one less thing to think about.
git (the cli one) is the only thing worth using!! :P

Real hint 2: your footnote implementation is broken, but you're probably not hardcore enough about it to realize. I'll let you have some fun on this, I had mine before :D
I noticed it's broken when the footnote starts with a newline *and* the /me doesn't cope very well with it.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r2 on November 11, 2013, 12:28:16 pm
forumsearch0r,
thanks for your work on translations, but I had to reject the PR:
Quote
I'll close this PR for several reasons:
 1) your commits need to be signed-off (see our contributors guide for details)
 2) the PR title is x-rated, please use descriptive PR titles for future contributions.
 3) We still haven't decided how to handle translations.Most likely we'll have a seperate Tool for translation or we'll pull them in another repo (elkarte_languages). the main repo should not contain all translations,

However, please don't feel offended by rejecting your Pull request, we appreciate your hard work on translations. But let's discuss it on elkarte.net, first.
We need to determine an appropriate tool for translations first.

Uhm...

1) Huh?

And 3) So you reject my translation because you'll have to move the files into a different folder first? And it would totally be too much work for you to just move the German files once you have decided how? So I'll have to start over because you are too lazy to move files into a different folder?

Sorry, no, won't happen. May Jorin do all this stuff alone. I am a translator, not a bureaucrat.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: TE on November 11, 2013, 04:57:15 pm
Uhm...

1) Huh?

And 3) So you reject my translation because you'll have to move the files into a different folder first? And it would totally be too much work for you to just move the German files once you have decided how? So I'll have to start over because you are too lazy to move files into a different folder?

Sorry, no, won't happen. May Jorin do all this stuff alone. I am a translator, not a bureaucrat.

1) https://github.com/elkarte/Elkarte/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md
https://github.com/elkarte/Elkarte/blob/master/DCO.txt
The reason for the signed-off by is because  we accept commits without a CLA (contributor license agreement).
it's a simple git commit -s

3) As said: don't feel offended. The main issue: we haven't decided if we are using a git repo ( that would be https://github.com/elkarte/languages, not the main ElkArte repo) or another tool. It's not buraucracy  ;)
And by the way: Your work wasn't useless, we can cherry-pick your former commits, but they still need to be signed-off.

 Just because a Pull request was rejected doesn't mean the entire work was useless..

If needed I can also reply in german :)
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: emanuele on November 11, 2013, 05:18:04 pm
1) well, it's not that I would reject a valid PR just for that, though I would really appreciate meaningful messages (I accept jokes too, but the one you used is... a bit out of context TBH).

No, I didn't say I'm going to refuse your translation, though we are not going to put all the translations in the same repo as the "application code" (both to avoid to have many things around in one single repo and to keep the development easier), this is the only thing I know. So in any case these files should go somewhere else.
The code can be picked from the PR at any time, and I'm for sure going to pick it.

Regarding the "appropriate too", yes translate using github is not very efficient (every time a string is added to the English there is to update several files, and strings can end up in different positions leading to inconsistency, etc.), I for one would prefer to use a different tool, but for the moment we have this one.

As per the bureaucrat part... heh I'm not either, but I usually try to follow the guidelines if I can (and if they exist), otherwise if people just do what they want it would become a mess in no time (personal experience :P). I can't see many barriers to any kind of contribution:
1) know a bit of git,
2) sign-off the commits (that depending on the tool you are using may be just add -s to the command line, or add "signes-off name <email@email.com>" in the commit message). Yes, the sign-off is not entirely "mandatory", we could just pick your commit, sign it off on your behalf and push it (double work for us, but doable, I already did it in few occasions), but is nice if you can do it by yourself.

ETA: or what TE said. :P
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on November 11, 2013, 05:21:50 pm
Yes, the sign-off is not entirely "mandatory", we could just pick your commit, sign it off on your behalf and push it

I could live with that. :P
So, essentially, rejection was a weird decision anyway.

(I never knew about the "sign-off" functionality...)
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on November 11, 2013, 08:21:29 pm
BTW, I didn't just translate, I also added a string.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: Jorin on November 13, 2013, 05:52:56 am
Would be better to split this thread, what do you think?  ;)
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: morle800 on November 13, 2013, 08:35:56 am
good idea :)
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: TE on November 13, 2013, 10:47:47 am

Would be better to split this thread, what do you think?  ;)
yep, done .. related new topic is named Footnotes.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: emanuele on November 26, 2013, 11:56:57 am
Here there is the current translation forumsearch0r is working on.
Is partial, if you want to collaborate in finishing it any help is welcome. ;D

Also I suppose you'll want to have a German informal "at some point", if the "some point" is now, let me know and I can create the new directory and package for you, just let me know. ;)
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: Jorin on December 03, 2013, 10:49:40 am
Is forumsearch0r actually really working on it? Because:

Sorry, no, won't happen. May Jorin do all this stuff alone. I am a translator, not a bureaucrat.

?
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: NetFlag on December 03, 2013, 11:42:54 am
As needed I offer my encourage too.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on December 03, 2013, 02:34:56 pm
Is forumsearch0r actually really working on it?

In opposite to you (or where are your results?), I made half the translations now. Maybe you should spend less time discussing them and more time actually contributing. I haven't seen one single line by you, only announcements that you might already have....   :-\

To be precise, right now I'm not working on them, I have some real life to do. Maybe I'll continue later this week.

If anyone of you decides to finally do something different than just announcing their ability to speak German, maybe it would be the easiest way to keep them altogether. I keep my translation trunk here (https://github.com/dertuxmalwieder/Elkarte/tree/master/themes/default/languages/german), randomly updating as I find the time to translate some more strings (usually one file at a time, all the small files are already done). You might want to fork and commit particular pull requests right there so the devs only need to watch one repository (which they already do).

Or you'll just wait one or two more weeks when I have a couple of work-free days. It'll all be done then (presumably).
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: Jorin on December 03, 2013, 03:36:10 pm
In opposite to you (or where are your results?), I made half the translations now. Maybe you should spend less time discussing them and more time actually contributing. I haven't seen one single line by you, only announcements that you might already have....   :-\

Oh, we have a deadline and it's in the near future? No need to be sarcastic, forumsearch0r, I just offered to help. There seems no need to, so I'll relax, lean back and have popcorn.  ;D

... I have some real life to do.

Me too.

If anyone of you decides to finally do something different than just announcing their ability to speak German, ...

Must I proof it?  ::)

Or you'll just wait one or two more weeks when I have a couple of work-free days. It'll all be done then (presumably).

Thanks a lot! I'll wait then.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on December 03, 2013, 05:11:30 pm
Fine!  :D
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: NetFlag on December 03, 2013, 07:43:03 pm
......
 I keep my translation trunk here (https://github.com/dertuxmalwieder/Elkarte/tree/master/themes/default/languages/german),
 ......

Wow, most work is done. Thank you!

Edit:
Despite UTF-8. Mistake in encoding:
Alle neuen Beitr�ge ansehen.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on December 03, 2013, 09:01:27 pm
Sure that it's not just your editor?
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: emanuele on December 03, 2013, 09:39:42 pm
/me likes when there is a lot of people that want to help! :D

Hey no reason to heat up the discussion. :P
As I said previously, if any one is not comfortable with github, you can just attach the files here, and me or anyone else can push the contributions on your behalf. ;D
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: NetFlag on December 03, 2013, 10:55:31 pm
Sure that it's not just your editor?
Thanks for the advice. Normally I work under Debian with Geany. No need to care about encoding. This time I do at on a WIN7 Desktop-PC. So I walk into the trap.  :-[
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on December 03, 2013, 10:57:50 pm
I (as a Win7 user) edit the language files with Emacs and Sublime Text 3 (depending on my mood), both usually know UTF-8. Feel free to decide for a better text editor when on Win7. :)
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: NetFlag on December 03, 2013, 11:15:04 pm
Just download Sublime Text 3 Portable and notepad++ portable. Have to see whitch one fits better my needs. This will never happens again to me.  :)
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on December 03, 2013, 11:16:58 pm
I actually ditched Notepad++ (and GVim) for Sublime Text back in the days. N++ is not really stable (http://tuxproject.de/blog/2013/09/sublime-text-na-ja-ich-habs-versucht/) for me. It never was.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: NetFlag on December 04, 2013, 12:00:15 pm
Thanks for the link. Muchly informative.
Dont have to do overreact contortions, so I think Notepad++ is good enough for me.  ;)

Regards
NetFlag
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on December 04, 2013, 12:03:37 pm
Time will tell.  ::)
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: NetFlag on December 04, 2013, 12:27:43 pm
As I said, most time of my private activity the system is called Debian. No problems there. Only at the office unhappily is no alternative to WIN7. Furthermor time is short right there.
Anyway, many thanks for your deliberation!  :)
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: NetFlag on December 05, 2013, 05:10:30 pm
....
As I said previously, if any one is not comfortable with github, you can just attach the files here, and me or anyone else can push the contributions on your behalf. ;D

OK, here I go for it. See attached Profile.german.formal and EmailTemplates.german.formal.  :)

Edit:
Atached files deleted
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on December 05, 2013, 05:36:22 pm
Quote
Sie erhälst jedoch erst weitere Benachrichtigungen

Well... now that's screwed.

Attached fixed version (and added it to my Git). Please try to keep the wordings consistent throughout the complete German translation. I haven't had the time to check the Profile... yet, but maybe you should review it again.

(And it's "auf etwas klicken", not "etwas klicken".  ::) )
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: NetFlag on December 05, 2013, 06:47:47 pm
Careless mistakes.  :-[  You are at a great pace in correction. Thanks therefor!
Revised Profile.german.formal attached. To come right, hopefully.  :-\
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on December 05, 2013, 07:15:48 pm
Well, no, not nearly.  ;D

Fixed, added to git. With your nickname as a commit message, of course.

(Random question: Should we use "correct" quotation marks or stay with "?)
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: emanuele on December 05, 2013, 08:40:58 pm
I suppose it's up to you... no?

The only place I can see some *potential* issue is in emails, but for the rest should be fine one way or the other.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on December 05, 2013, 08:42:39 pm
Hence my question. I'm not entirely sure if ElkArte handles „German quotation marks“ correctly.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: emanuele on December 05, 2013, 09:39:27 pm
We can try. ;)

If you have an example I can just throw it into an email template and send out some emails to myself. And if it doesn't work... we can call it a bug and try to fix it. :P
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on December 05, 2013, 09:43:50 pm
A valid example is „...“, given that the part between the marks is irrelevant here. ;)
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: emanuele on December 05, 2013, 10:29:20 pm
The first two seems a double comma...isn't it? :P

I think these are the "correct" chars, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_variation_in_quotation_marks
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on December 05, 2013, 10:31:51 pm
Yes, they are. Not as wide as "double comma".  ;)
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on January 04, 2014, 02:27:05 am
I'm stuck:

Quote
Show Enclosed Within Text

^ What does that mean?  :o
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: Spuds on January 04, 2014, 03:53:33 pm
I had to go look myself, odd wording.

Turns out that its part of the profile fields area.  It takes whatever the user enters in the input box and "wraps" that input in some supplied text, like a custom template for that field.

So if the user entered blabla  you can make it appear as e.g.  did you say "blabla" ?

Perhaps,
Enclose user input in text  
Wrap user input with
Template to use on input
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on January 04, 2014, 04:51:18 pm
I'd prefer "Wrap user input in text" :-)
Will change it in the English file somewhen today ... ;)
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on January 25, 2014, 05:10:48 pm
With only the "Help" left to translate (I'm on it...), I wonder if there's a good German word for "news feed" except "Newsfeed"?
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on January 25, 2014, 05:11:30 pm
BTW:

A valid example is „...“, given that the part between the marks is irrelevant here. ;)

^ Someone seems to have broken Unicode here!
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: emanuele on January 25, 2014, 05:41:35 pm
mmm @Spuds? O:-)
Was it so recent the issue with chars? I thought it was happened a long time aog.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on January 25, 2014, 05:42:29 pm
It was after December 5, definitely. :P
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: Spuds on January 25, 2014, 08:50:17 pm
I'm 100% not sure :D

We have had this happen a few times, at one point I thought it was old ones that htmlspecial was messing up the character code but we fixed that some time back.  Something else is going one, need to look around some more.
Title: Re: ElkArte german language files
Post by: forumsearch0r on January 26, 2014, 05:39:21 pm
While everyone is fiddling with above character bug, maybe some other German translators are willing to help me with the Help? I guess it should be ready before the release of ElkArte 1.0 (just for publicity reasons), and I'm not sure I can make it on time. I'm done with the first 189 lines...

Update: 314 lines.