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[Antechinus] Default theme changes?

Saw this in another discussion.
Well at least if you want to add stuff like this, it'll give me more time to work on the theme. Lots more time. :D

Ant,
I would like us to find a solution for working in common, theming included, better than how it worked on 2.1 on the theme.

Look at it this way: we don't know what you're doing, we don't know what to expect, and you don't seem to see that if you give us one day a huge bunch of changes at once, there will be a *LOT* of work to merge them. And a lot of uncertainty as to where the design is, and where it is going. With consequences.
It's not an optimal solution, to put it this way.

Please note: This site is a test site (in theory it wasn't an official site yet... though it probably becomes), and it can be used for *testing anything*. Is there anything apart from git/github dislike or issues, that's stopping you from using it, for precisely: testing stuff?

There are several alternatives/solutions to problems with our basic git/github workflow. But I still need to understand better where are the problems (no, general nagging won't cut it, sorry), and thereby we can see what to do.
What are the blocking issues for you to use the git repository on github? It can be used almost like svn.
What was, for example, the latest problem?

Also. I find that github had in the past, a svn integration set up. I don't know yet if it's still working (and I never used it myself), but currently I'll retest it and talk to the github folks on its issues. I suppose it would be your preference - but please note I don't know yet if it works and what the workflow would be, in case it's usable.
The best moment for testing your PR is right after you merge it. Can't miss with that one.

Re: [Antechinus] Default theme changes?

Reply #1
Problem at the moment is that I'm working on another site, so haven't done anything on Elk.
Master of Expletives: Now with improved family f@&king friendliness! :D

Sources code: making easy front end changes difficult since 1873. :P

Re: [Antechinus] Default theme changes?

Reply #2
You weren't supposed to fess up helping us on Wedge! ;) (just kidding)

Re: [Antechinus] Default theme changes?

Reply #3
:D I'm only in it for the money.

And TBH I have this attitude of "I'll skin the sucker once you buggers stop adding fudge nuggets so I lknow what I have to skin".
Master of Expletives: Now with improved family f@&king friendliness! :D

Sources code: making easy front end changes difficult since 1873. :P

Re: [Antechinus] Default theme changes?

Reply #4
And TBH I have this attitude of "I'll skin the sucker once you buggers stop adding fudge nuggets so I lknow what I have to skin".
That's not how it works, though. Unless you're saying that we'll stay in an endless cycle on new-theme-added in RC2.  O:-)

Either way, please use this topic in preference, for any issues you may have. I don't think our workflow is exactly close to perfection, but we will need to know where the problems are, to fix them.

I know we'll make theme changes later, but the main design is a goal of the upcoming release, I believe. So we depend on it for Elk specific look 'n feel. ;)
The best moment for testing your PR is right after you merge it. Can't miss with that one.

Re: [Antechinus] Default theme changes?

Reply #5
Can we get rid of more boxes then? :D


"Little boxes on a forum, little boxes made of ticky tacky.
Little boxes on a forum, little boxes all the same...."
Master of Expletives: Now with improved family f@&king friendliness! :D

Sources code: making easy front end changes difficult since 1873. :P

Re: [Antechinus] Default theme changes?

Reply #6
Well, well...then it seems it's time for me to show up and kill some other template... O:-) ...and I have *many* on my list. >:D
Bugs creator.
Features destroyer.
Template killer.

Re: [Antechinus] Default theme changes?

Reply #7
Go ahead. Given that the defaults will probably be full of bloat I'll never use, I'll most likely throw out the default coding and write my own anyway. Been doing that since I started years ago.

BTW, this is one (major) reason why I am in favour of file edits for modifications. I understand the arguments against them for a production build , but theming is all about file edits. You don't (unless you're insane) try to rewrite an entire gui by using hooks.
Master of Expletives: Now with improved family f@&king friendliness! :D

Sources code: making easy front end changes difficult since 1873. :P

Re: [Antechinus] Default theme changes?

Reply #8
Do most themers try and rewrite an entire GUI?

Our approach, and from our perspective it seems to be working, was to modularise everything and that way you can replace just one piece of markup with another (and plugins are entirely free to lop off and replace any of the chunks if they so desire)

If users want to edit the markup, let them edit the markup. No need to package that into a modification package.

Re: [Antechinus] Default theme changes?

Reply #9
No, most themers don't. :D I just prefer the direct approach with a chainsaw.
Master of Expletives: Now with improved family f@&king friendliness! :D

Sources code: making easy front end changes difficult since 1873. :P

Re: [Antechinus] Default theme changes?

Reply #10
Y'know what? At this stage I don't much give a rat's. I can't see this thing, or any of the others, coming out anytime soon. So, at this stage I'm only interested in sorting the site that has to work now, and for the foreseeable future, to my own satisfaction. Once that is out of the way*, then I might have some time for working on the "next big thing".

You can blame consecutive years of instability and delays for that. I'm currently in a "I'll believe it when I see it" mode.

*ETA: And since you're probably wondering how long this will take, I should have it sorted by the end of March. Realisitically it wont be done much before then, all things considered.
Master of Expletives: Now with improved family f@&king friendliness! :D

Sources code: making easy front end changes difficult since 1873. :P

Re: [Antechinus] Default theme changes?

Reply #11
Oh and just a general thought re default themes, while I think of it.

With Curve (and presumably with Core, although I wasn't around then) there was a concern with building in theming flexibility in the form of markup that wasn't actually used by default. The idea was that themers could have it available for use without having to hack templates.

It was assumed that this, in association with the awesome new semantic (more or less, sort of, bleh) markup and greatly extended use of CSS would usher in a new Golden Age of Theming Innovation (ta da!).

This didn't happen, of course, because 95% of "themers" are a bit short on imagination, have bugger all patience, and not much in the way of coding knowledge, so what we got was a plethora of cruddy Curve variants. :P

So, my 2c at the moment is that any new default should be stripped right down to what it needs to run itself. Anyone who really wants something different will learn to code it themselves anyway. The rest of them will never use anything they are given regardless of how nifty it is in theory.
Master of Expletives: Now with improved family f@&king friendliness! :D

Sources code: making easy front end changes difficult since 1873. :P


Re: [Antechinus] Default theme changes?

Reply #13
Oh good move! Bloody things have been useless for ages.
Master of Expletives: Now with improved family f@&king friendliness! :D

Sources code: making easy front end changes difficult since 1873. :P