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We have created and established the development channel on #elkarte, on freenode. Don't be shy, if you're interested, go ahead and join.

I'll add a few logs here, for everyone to keep easier tabs on things, to understand where we're heading, and be able to step up on your preferred functionality or area of your interest.
The best moment for testing your PR is right after you merge it. Can't miss with that one.


Reply #1

(01:51:56 AM) Norv: do you have time to review Joker's mod?
(01:55:33 AM) emanuele: if me, not this weekend
(01:56:27 AM) Spuds: ... this is a bit rough, and after I started not sure it works with Elkarte, but not sure it does not either :P ..... take a look when you have time
(01:56:59 AM) Spuds: We shoudl suggest to Joker that he do it as a core feature to replace the Karma core feature (for elkarte of course)

(01:58:51 AM) emanuele: I think Lab had a not bad idea: loadCSSfile and LoadJSfile could create the same ID (or at least a problematic one) if a mod would put its css/hs in a subdirectory
(02:08:59 AM) Spuds: you mean ID as in an xhmtl validaition thing
(02:09:37 AM) emanuele: I think so
(02:14:43 AM) Spuds: Its pretty easy to generate duplicate ID's TBH (with those functions) ...
(02:15:16 AM) Spuds: I'm not sure they are even required

(02:16:31 AM) Norv: ffs directory structure... me is confuzzled and should have made those first

(02:16:53 AM) emanuele: Another thing I was noting:
(02:16:55 AM) emanuele:
(02:16:56 AM) emanuele:
(02:17:11 AM) emanuele: the two queries and following lines are pretty similar...
(02:18:05 AM) emanuele: I was thinking to excide them and create a function, where should be put? A new Subs-Messages.php?
(02:19:04 AM) Norv: without looking at the code: yep
(02:19:26 AM) Norv: imho don't be shy on refactorings like this
(02:20:58 AM) emanuele: okay for the refactoring too
(02:21:27 AM) emanuele left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
(02:21:48 AM) ***Norv has looked at the code too... but anyway :D
(02:22:09 AM) Norv: oh it must have been 1:00 am for Ema

(05:01:03 PM) emanuele: my biggest problem with refactoring is that I start from a point, then I find something else that should be re-organized and I start working on that second part...and that usually ends up in a loop...
(05:06:08 PM) Norv: it happens :) I got that with...err, something with boards, it ended up on disregard :D
(05:06:48 PM) ***Norv is restarting to be disciplined and gets ready the directory structure instead
(05:10:26 PM) emanuele: you want to change it again? O_O
(05:10:58 PM) emanuele: disregarding => reminds me something doesn't work...
(05:17:41 PM) Norv: I didn't change it yet in line with the topic I opened :)
(05:18:43 PM) Norv: we had decided to stick with option 6, something with *.subs and *.controller and *.class
(05:20:27 PM) emanuele: AHH...
(05:20:29 PM) emanuele: okay

(11:28:38 PM) Norv:
(11:28:54 PM) emanuele: :'(
(11:28:59 PM) ***emanuele runs
(11:30:10 PM) Norv: don't run, merge! :D
(11:31:06 PM) Norv: err *review :D
(11:34:11 PM) Norv: though it isn't entirely finished...

(11:34:48 PM) Norv: question: if I introduce a loadLibrary() for /subs files, and a loadController() for /controllers, would it be fine?
(11:35:36 PM) emanuele: think so
(11:36:38 PM) Norv: the hardcoded subdirectories are kinda ugly
(11:51:44 PM) Norv: or $librarydir and $controllerdir
(11:52:37 PM) emanuele: go for the load, less to type... :P
(11:54:31 PM) Norv: it's an extra function call though
(11:54:49 PM) Norv: and this time for a lot of files

(12:27:57 AM) emanuele: OMG did you merge it already? ... tomorrow will be a sad day...
(12:28:29 AM) Norv: it was a decent merge with spuds' utf8only, though, ema
(12:28:54 AM) Norv: because it's really only moves around, and git recognizes the same file
(12:29:10 AM) Norv: well except for the former (rest in peace) Class-Package
(12:29:43 AM) emanuele: I hope so...probably mine was more destructive for the error_class branch (but that's just one file
(12:31:06 AM) emanuele: and the banEdit...I forgot (again) about it... :'(
(12:31:21 AM) Norv: ohyes I wanted to ask you about that...
The best moment for testing your PR is right after you merge it. Can't miss with that one.


Reply #2

(12:34:07 AM) Trekkie101: Will elk support an SMF upgrade/convert?
(12:35:15 AM) Norv: Trekkie101: of course. Upgrade from SMF any version, including 1.0. And yabbse, though dunno if I will test that one.
(12:35:57 AM) Norv: Dis is one of my pets, I fixed the upgrade to still work, and want to keep it that way :)
(12:36:19 AM) ***Norv is afraid to test upgrade right now...
(12:36:19 AM) Trekkie101: :)

(12:36:33 AM) emanuele: Norv do you remember if I ported the upgrade fix for Themes outside of $boarddir?
(12:36:46 AM) Norv: nope...
(12:36:50 AM) emanuele: I feel I didn't...
(12:37:49 AM) emanuele: (incidentally) probably we will need to actually "fix" the issue with leftover files from the "upgrade"...

(12:37:00 AM) Trekkie101: Next question, and it's somewhat loaded, during refactoring, I don't suppose you ripped out the bbcode parser and made it a library ;)?
(12:38:48 AM) Norv: Spuds has worked on a bbcode parser, forked from an FOSS library, to integrate and adapt, for SMF 2.1. It was in one of his branches, when the corporation stuff blew up. We wou;d like to review it and try to add it but he's not sure if for 1.0. It seems that for the moment, it's too OOP, creates too many objects and works too slow. (performance tests made by Spuds were like 50% slower or something)

(12:54:03 AM) Norv: I think some people around SM are for some reason biased against mailing lists. But mailing lists predate them and tbh, they will last. They're just damn handy.
(01:18:12 AM) Norv: FYI, in case youre interested, a view on forum vs mailing lists:

(01:16:52 AM) Trekkie101: Sticking with elkarte as the name?
(01:17:32 AM) emanuele: ├ČI'm sure Spuds want to cahnge it (again)! :P
(01:17:34 AM) emanuele: LOL
(01:18:19 AM) Trekkie101: JUST A FECKING FORUM  JAFF
(01:18:33 AM) Norv: LOL I love that! :D
(01:20:38 AM) Trekkie101: Oddly available

(09:43:36 PM) Spuds: What defines what files go in /lib ..... QbQ, why does badbehavior not go there?
(10:02:02 PM) emanuele: no idea, wasting time discussing evolution... :(
(10:02:04 PM) Norv: Ah. I believe it should go there.
(10:02:17 PM) Norv: I didn't do it yet, thats all
(10:05:45 PM) Spuds: OK ... just wanted to make sure I was not missing something wrt what goes as a lib ... working on porting over my PBE mod and its got its fair share of lib helpers ....
(10:06:24 PM) Norv: Oh thats so great to hear!
(10:06:47 PM) Norv: not sure if you noticed, I mentioned that on the comments on 1.0
(10:08:40 PM) Norv: It was because a convo we had yesterday here, reminded me of email-forum integration. FYI, here is an interesting (imho) view of mailing lists heavy users, on forums:
(10:13:53 PM) Spuds: Yes ... well I'll get a branch with whats involved up so we can all take a look.  Email formats and dealing with them seem to carry every sin ever concieved by the web so there are some complexities involved, and more compromises than normal ... but it does work.
Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 11:15:37 pm by TestMonkey
The best moment for testing your PR is right after you merge it. Can't miss with that one.


Reply #3

(10:13:08 PM) Norv: Can anyone pretty please make a quick review on ?
(10:13:40 PM) Norv: I fixed a few issues for the former... (oops) and even though it's wip, it kinda sorta should also be in
(10:13:58 PM) ***Norv breaks them rulez.
(10:15:56 PM) emanuele: do we have rules? ?_?
(10:16:02 PM) Norv: lol
(10:16:15 PM) Norv: Nope. They're merely... guidelines!
(10:16:41 PM) emanuele: I thought the only rule was: break as much as possible and don't get caught with your hands dirty
(10:17:02 PM) Norv: [/captain Jack Sparrow]
(10:17:14 PM) Spuds: Did you see how dirty Ema's hands are?
(10:17:25 PM) emanuele: Norv is winning this round
(10:18:43 PM) Norv: True dat. The round is all mine.

10:16:35 PM) Spuds: Speaking of rules ....
(10:16:35 PM) Spuds: class browser_detector
(10:16:35 PM) Spuds: class site_Combiner
(10:16:35 PM) Spuds: class standard_search
(10:16:35 PM) Spuds: class curl_fetch_web_data
(10:16:36 PM) Spuds: class custom_search
(10:16:36 PM) Spuds: class fulltext_search
(10:16:36 PM) Spuds: class sphinxql_search
(10:16:36 PM) Spuds: class sphinx_search
(10:16:37 PM) Spuds: class site_Dispatcher
(10:16:37 PM) Spuds: class xmlArray
(10:16:38 PM) Spuds: class ftp_connection
(10:16:38 PM) Spuds: what are the class naming rules and should the filename reflect the classname?
(10:19:19 PM) Norv: How does Camel_Underlined_Cases sound?
(10:20:09 PM) emanuele: less error-prone than plain_with_underscores
(10:20:43 PM) emanuele: (at least here where the underscore requires the shift)
(10:21:15 PM) Norv: The filename should contain both the classname and the 'class' or 'controller' or whatnot suffix
(10:21:42 PM) Norv: I'll make a pass through all of them now?
(10:21:42 PM) Spuds: Works for me .... (funny how we pick the one that was not used yet)
(10:22:01 PM) Norv: lol
(10:22:02 PM) Spuds: Sounds good, do it while yer hands are dirty
(10:22:02 PM) emanuele: LOL

(10:28:52 PM) emanuele: hey, when we will rename $smcFunc? :P
(10:29:04 PM) emanuele: $elkFunc? :P
(10:29:24 PM) Spuds: $funkyElk

(10:30:30 PM) Spuds: Holy crap on #82 ... yeah it look fine :P .... thats a merge and see whats broke commit !
(10:31:03 PM) emanuele: that's the best way to review this kind of "things" :P
(10:31:24 PM) Spuds: you did miss a require in the loadBadBehavior() function in security
(10:31:30 PM) Spuds: LOL ... yup
(10:31:37 PM) emanuele:
(10:31:47 PM) emanuele: lol
(10:32:12 PM) Norv: lol, heh, only one miss? Kinda doubt it...
(11:14:35 PM) emanuele: it's time to do a pull I suppose...
The best moment for testing your PR is right after you merge it. Can't miss with that one.


Reply #4

(11:47:39 PM) Spuds: How "improper" is it to use globals like $modSettings or $context in a class?
(11:47:59 PM) emanuele: tagging! :D
(11:52:17 PM) Spuds: I bet that made Norv passout
(11:54:39 PM) Norv: It's okay, IMO: we cannot avoid those, really, and IMHO it's a better use of our time to avoid others, not those.
(11:57:32 PM) Norv: "Those" = the very widely used globals in Elk: $modSettings, $sourcedir, $librarydir (*angel eyes*), $settings. As for $context, my care would be on where it's used: if it's possible, we should avoid using it in .subs files, and/or in the same function with a query. They're just from very different levels of the architecture, $context for views (templating, pages), while queries are on the contrary, from the low-level "side".
(01/21/2013 12:00:20 AM) Norv: But $modSettings, $sourcedir, ah, $smcFunc too of course, are just impossible to avoid most of the time, and that's okay imo. At some point we will probably take each of them and design it differently (i.e. a class for $modSettings) and then we'll see how we use that class. (maybe global, maybe singleton, maybe grabbed from a container)
(12:02:00 AM) Norv: What I keep mumbling about, on $context, is of course not true for Ema's prepareContextXxx() stuff.
(12:03:01 AM) emanuele: lol
(12:03:06 AM) ***emanuele is always the exception :P
(12:03:26 AM) Spuds: Thanks ... I don't feel so bad now :D ....
(12:03:26 AM) Spuds:  I'll try and avoid $context, thats generally easier, but modsettings, smcfunc, txt, etc will its almost worse trying to avoid pulling those in with the way things are at the moment ...
(12:03:26 AM) Spuds: Ah yes, once those are in a class its a different story ... that will be nice
(12:03:29 AM) Norv: One thing that crossed my mind: I know we sometimes use $context to pass variables from a function that does some work to another function that does some work, and then, it's not used anymore (not sent to template). Those should be avoided imo: they're better off as parameters for the next function.
(12:03:31 AM) emanuele: even though I wrote two of them and they have two different behaviours... lol
(12:07:38 AM) Spuds: Really what prompted the question was the PBE stuff I have is part class helpers and part procederal stuff ... but some combining could be done, so I was looking at doing that.  You know its working fine now so I have to change it just to keep up with you two
(12:32:25 AM) ***Norv has messed up the profile completely, that will hopefully not interfere

(01:04:11 AM) Trekkie101: To bump in: Tagging in posts. BLOODY BRILLIANT
(01:05:10 AM) Norv: Yah gotta do that. *is busy breaking profile apart

(03:03:09 AM) Norv: Spuds: I merged another small bit
(03:03:24 AM) Norv: I hope this time I am fixing thingz not breaking them, heh.
(03:43:49 AM) Spuds: LOL .... you can't move stuff around like this and not break a few things along the way ... don't worry, I'm noting going to push it to the Elkarte site right away :D
(06:07:39 AM) Spuds: FYI ... in upgrade-1.0.sql ('smileys_dir', '{$sboarddir}/smileys'),  shoudl be $boarddir
The best moment for testing your PR is right after you merge it. Can't miss with that one.


Reply #5

08:32:34 PM) Norv: May I?

(08:37:10 PM) Norv: emanuele, do we still want a portal integrated in elk?
(08:38:19 PM) Norv: If yes, we could do it. I can use blocks on the site, I'd like to pull github commits in one of them. Just a thought, the github api is easy to use
(08:39:34 PM) emanuele: I'm a bit lost, sorry: do you mean allow easy creation of portals for elk, or ship the thing with a portal already there?
(08:39:41 PM) emanuele: or something else completely?
(08:40:16 PM) Norv: I believe someone (Ant and Eliana for sure, Spuds maybe?) planned to integrate SP
(08:41:00 PM) emanuele: so ship the whole thing...
(08:41:04 PM) Norv: Indeed my take would be for the code to be separated (at the level of code design). Shipping or not shipping would be then just a matter of packaging
(08:41:45 PM) emanuele: okay, let's say have already a portal working for it then
(08:41:56 PM) emanuele: that would make sense
(08:42:38 PM) Norv: lets see what it would mean... I dont remember if SP was open licensed in the end... goes search
(08:42:51 PM) emanuele: not that I can see
(08:42:57 PM) emanuele: still the old SMF 1.1
(08:43:14 PM) emanuele: (and that's one of the reasons I didn't clone the repo :P)
The best moment for testing your PR is right after you merge it. Can't miss with that one.


Reply #6

(01/22/2013 12:16:35 AM) Norv: emanuele should I try to rebase your PRs (for the conflicts) ?
(12:17:16 AM) emanuele: no problem I'll do it tomorrow
(12:32:37 AM) ***Norv feels slightly guilty :)
(12:32:58 AM) emanuele: lol

(02:41:22 AM) Spuds: just made a quick pr to fix a couple of things I saw on the live site ...
(02:54:30 AM) Norv: thanks!

(03:32:01 AM) Norv: One more little round. I think I found a few missed calls too with the occasion
(03:32:27 AM) Norv: (missed from earlier ->action_xxx() refactoring)
(03:46:40 AM) Spuds: Ah ... well I'm sure there are a few more to be uncovered ... saw your PR, looks good to me
(03:52:39 AM) Norv: I merged it then, thanks
(03:53:26 AM) Norv: you never know what ugly silly bugsy you may uncover, if we review PRs
Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 03:40:28 am by TestMonkey
The best moment for testing your PR is right after you merge it. Can't miss with that one.


Reply #7

You enjoy IRC far too much!


Reply #8


(08:01:53 PM) ***Norv asks for clearance on at least, to see it done.
(08:05:50 PM) Spuds: I know for certain that it will not break my windows installl
(08:15:40 PM) Norv: yep, it 'breaks' ours (emanuele is on a Linux too afaik)
(08:17:06 PM) Spuds: loosers :P
(08:18:17 PM) Spuds: I have no problems with the merge in ... but like dialogo => elkarte you can't change your mind or I will loose mine :D
(09:11:53 PM) ***emanuele feels something will break...again... :'(
(09:26:22 PM) Spuds: again ? :P
(09:31:55 PM) Norv: it does, of course it does break... I forgot again a hack I did in my files... normally upgrade should have updated the theme paths, and I forgot that

(09:32:35 PM) emanuele: I'm applying right now the upgrade fix for themes outside $boarddir
(11:24:23 PM) emanuele: Playing a bit with ?action=unread;all and splitting the query into 3 I went from a 2.6 seconds to 1.5 to generate the page...not much, but not bad I think (though it's a quite borderline case)

(12:22:48 AM) emanuele: ARGG!!!
(12:25:55 AM) emanuele: oook...merged this darn themes and upgrade issue, now back to admin_search...
(12:27:07 AM) emanuele: okay, now it should merge...

(12:55:24 AM) emanuele: Is there any other complete overhaul planned for the next weeks? :P
(01:04:04 AM) emanuele: fixed sm_to_elk too
(01:21:16 AM) Spuds: hummm complete overhaul you say ... smcFunc => class structure (/me runs)
(01:22:23 AM) emanuele: next century I hope...
(01:22:27 AM) emanuele: :P
The best moment for testing your PR is right after you merge it. Can't miss with that one.


Reply #9

(02:38:03 AM) TimeVortex: I noticed you've been busy! :D
(02:38:39 AM) Norv: I broke everything... '(
(02:40:02 AM) Norv: have you seen how them looks of the source changed? :D
(02:40:14 AM) TimeVortex: Briefly!
(02:40:24 AM) TimeVortex: I like how things are getting more and more MVC'ish
(02:40:33 AM) ***Norv is very happy about it, even so rough (=on the surface) as it currently is

(02:40:45 AM) TimeVortex: The poll query changes caught my eye earlier.
(02:41:15 AM) Norv: That wasnt very useful I guess (since afaics it's only used there) but it made sense imho.
(02:41:28 AM) TimeVortex: Definitely.
(02:41:33 AM) TimeVortex: It's a leap in the right direction anyway.
(02:41:39 AM) Norv: Aesthetics of code design, heh. :)
(02:41:48 AM) TimeVortex: Will make it much easier to possibly adapt it into OOP in the future
(02:42:35 AM) Norv: I just restarted for the... nth time, a refactoring to OOP controllers for the admin area. Once I get it right, I hope it will show in which direction we're moving.
(02:43:03 AM) Norv: Yep that's the point, and has always been
(02:44:11 AM) TimeVortex: Indeed. It has been ever since Compuart coined the idea at CodeFest in Arizona, heh.
(02:44:52 AM) TimeVortex: Although you lot have plans of your own, of course.
(02:44:56 AM) Norv: I'm sorry, Aaron. Yes, I know. And I couldn't make it under that name.
(02:45:24 AM) TimeVortex: Oh, don't be, really.
(02:45:40 AM) TimeVortex: I may be a core dev of old, but I hold no grudge against anyone, really.
(02:46:14 AM) Norv: I know, don't worry.
(02:46:30 AM) TimeVortex: Good, good, so stop apologising! ;)
(02:46:37 AM) Norv: And I think I didn't break your charsets any longer.
(02:47:10 AM) TimeVortex: dun dun dunnn
The best moment for testing your PR is right after you merge it. Can't miss with that one.


Reply #10

(02:47:21 AM) TimeVortex: I take it you lot will go full UTF-8, though?
(02:47:31 AM) Norv: Yes, we try
(02:47:39 AM) Norv: Any idea what we miss so far?
(02:48:09 AM) TimeVortex: Hmm, I haven't had a very thorough look to be honest. One thing I do miss (at least as a guest) is time stamps on posts!

(02:48:27 AM) TimeVortex: But that might be the case in 2.1 as well -- I haven't been in the loop.
(02:48:35 AM) TimeVortex: (By choice)
(02:49:49 AM) Norv: I think this was an experiment of Ant's ? I seem to remember having been surprised too, Spuds should know
(02:53:10 AM) TimeVortex: It might well be. Looks really clean, I'll give him that.
(02:53:27 AM) TimeVortex: I miss it greatly though.
(02:53:46 AM) TimeVortex: If it were entirely up to me, I'd drop the message subjects in favour of the time stamp, I think.
(02:54:11 AM) Norv: I think we've tried that too... but it's so strange not to see the subject :(
02:54:37 AM) Norv: you don't know where you are, down the page, and what you were looking at... dunno
(02:55:40 AM) Norv: you're welcome to PR an option, though! :D
(02:59:14 AM) TimeVortex: Heh, I'm just used to seeing both, I guess. Once upon a time I presented it to my users like this:
Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 03:00:44 pm by TestMonkey
The best moment for testing your PR is right after you merge it. Can't miss with that one.


Reply #11

(03:21:42 AM) TimeVortex: Norv: looks like there are still timestamps when hovering a subject! Not the best solution, but at least it's something. :)
(03:22:02 AM) TimeVortex: trekkie101: no particular reason, really. I always have an IRC client open anyway, so I thought I'd drop by.
(03:22:33 AM) trekkie101: I like it when you drop by!
(03:23:07 AM) Norv: Liez. He wanted to grumble to make me touch theme stuff. Didn't work...
(03:24:57 AM) ***trekkie101 grumbles at Norv too, make a mobile theme cat lover :p or something to make my iPhone read it all better :(
(03:25:58 AM) ***Norv points at
(03:26:23 AM) trekkie101: Ooooooh
(03:26:40 AM) trekkie101: Ich bin is on board too?
(03:26:44 AM) Norv: Of course
(03:26:47 AM) trekkie101: I'm excited-er
(03:26:49 AM) TimeVortex: Ich bin on board

(03:38:26 AM) trekkie101: Lol!! I found a new bug in the CSS I think
(03:38:47 AM) trekkie101: On mobile safari the child board text is bigger than all else on the page
(03:40:06 AM) Spuds: Yeah I've seen some strange text sizes on mobile ... going to clean that up at some point, but ultimetly we need IchBin to finish his mobile theme
(03:41:51 AM) trekkie101: I managed! :D and It's exciting to see ichb continue!!

(03:27:04 AM) trekkie101: Also we don't need a wiki?
(03:27:45 AM) Norv: trekkie101: pretty please, if you wish: I started it but it needs love!
(03:28:33 AM) trekkie101: On git :p is that not like odd or awkward to access?
(03:28:35 AM) Norv:
(03:28:53 AM) Norv: You can edit from the web interface as well
(03:29:22 AM) trekkie101: Web interface too you say? I may be sold
Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 04:05:02 pm by TestMonkey
The best moment for testing your PR is right after you merge it. Can't miss with that one.


Reply #12

(05:17:40 AM) Norv: umm... where did the credits page go
(05:47:55 AM) Spuds: ARGH ... such a waste of time when a page gets cached !!!!!
(05:49:24 AM) Spuds: don't know where the credits are ... looks like we may have moved some things around ;)
The best moment for testing your PR is right after you merge it. Can't miss with that one.


Reply #13

(05:22:29 PM) emanuele:
(05:22:36 PM) emanuele: That's what I was talking about yesterday related to unread and unreadreplies
(05:23:08 PM) emanuele: still experimental (I don't even know if it works... :P )
(05:32:10 PM) Norv: thanks Ema, fyi though I don't have time to check it out
(05:33:54 PM) emanuele: no problem, the code is there, I'll try to move things around a bit anyway
(05:33:56 PM) Norv: and dunno what the mean Spuds does lately (other than accuse me of dirty hands, well rightfully we have to admit but hey)

(05:37:14 PM) ***Norv stares at the upgrade code. I know I changed things, but I'm blind or my changes aren't here.......
(05:37:50 PM) ***emanuele is innocent...
(05:37:54 PM) emanuele: well...I hope so
(05:37:57 PM) emanuele: O:-)
The best moment for testing your PR is right after you merge it. Can't miss with that one.


Reply #14

(12:54:02 AM) Spuds: Thoughts on PM attachments?
(12:58:32 AM) emanuele: I would give some strict control in terms of quotas etc.
(01:00:42 AM) Norv: Privacy issues. You can't have admins manage them, then again you can't not have them, so boo.
(01:00:53 AM) emanuele: I've to say I like Wedge's idea of the "gallery" (that in the end could simply some kind of list of files uploaded by a certain user), that avoids any kind of "privacy" concern and allows for better re-usability of things uploaded
(01:01:32 AM) emanuele: attachments have always been quite limited
(01:02:10 AM) Norv: some sort of upload/download system
(01:04:11 AM) emanuele: >  that avoids any kind of "privacy" concern <= because people should better understand the files are not "attached and visible only where attached", but are available and can be shared
(01:04:34 AM) Norv: I'm not sure what kind of permissions would be available ... such as per user? So you can share a file with a particular user
(01:04:34 AM) emanuele: (of course there is already the list of attached files)
(01:04:56 AM) Norv: yep it would
(01:05:03 AM) emanuele: yeah, that's the main problem... :(
(01:06:22 AM) Norv: per buddies would be obvious... but per membergroup is a little less obvious (since not everyone can see any membergroup but when you're in one of those you dont see and something has been shared with you, you probably will be able to realize with whom you're in)
(01:06:56 AM) Norv: anyway as a general idea I'd move out, if we can, of the idea of rigid membergroups...
(01:07:22 AM) Norv: I'd adventure to say: user-defined lists.
(01:08:49 AM) Norv: not buddies only (a single customization of their contacts available to the user), not membergroups (rigid groups defined by the admin and set in stone for everyone)
(01:14:06 AM) Spuds: Even just a simple attachment reuse otpion .. so when you are posting and want to attach something you can select from a file on your computer or from one of your own existing attachments ... that way they are still yours ... past that either  a simple private / public flag for who can attach them in other posts ... or  membergroup based attachment authority
(01:17:21 AM) Spuds: On the PM thing ... does anyone know what the other systems allow?  Not sure concern over the privacy is valid, not sure its not ... can't control how a forum is used to begin with .... Quotas are good, as are stricter filesize limits and maybe even expiration dates
(01:18:49 AM) Norv: I can't say I remember, I do think some have and some don't. Vague memory, though.
(01:20:15 AM) Norv: The problem is that the user will assume they're as private as PMs. (which are as they are). And that won't be true.
(01:23:04 AM) Spuds: You mean due to the way the attachment system currently works?
(01:24:19 AM) Norv: They will be visible in maintenance pages and all that. PMs are not, so well, you have a difference there which, imo, the user won't realize it exists
(01:24:29 AM) Norv: even admins.
(01:24:56 AM) Norv: It's way easier to check out your attachments than to decide to read someone's PMs from your database. IMHO.
(01:28:18 AM) emanuele: Spuds>   On the PM thing ... does anyone know what the other systems allow?
(01:28:32 AM) Spuds: But if you looks at Ema's neked pictures you may go blind :P
(01:28:34 AM) emanuele: just tried phpbb and it doesn't seem to have
(01:29:21 AM) emanuele: though I can't be sure
(01:29:28 AM) emanuele: maybe I missed some setting
(01:30:03 AM) emanuele: oh, yes I found it
(01:33:02 AM) Spuds: So they do allow it ?
(01:35:40 AM) Spuds: Seesm sometime in the 3.0 branch it started for them
(01:41:09 AM) Norv: If you have a list with your files... And you can add to it. Directly to a particular profile page for 'your files', or through a post attachment, or through a PM attachment. Will you realize they're all easily accessible to admins? I'm not sure about those you add as 'not visible yet to anyone' and 'attachment to a PM'.
(01:44:03 AM) emanuele: phpbb has pm attachments (enabled separately) and nobody can see the attachments except the poster and the PM receiver (AFAICS)
(01:45:25 AM) emanuele: I have a mixed feeling about it
(01:46:20 AM) emanuele: in the sense I don't care much about one way or the other
(01:46:40 AM) Norv: I think it might work if we can change the perspective about it... Such as by this 'mini-upload/download system' personalized but not entirely 'private'.
The best moment for testing your PR is right after you merge it. Can't miss with that one.